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Intro music: Bags are packed, are you ready to go?…This time tomorrow we’ll be on the road…riding with you into sunnier days…I wouldn’t want it any other way.

Julie: It’s time to name the neglect from typical food advice. Welcome to the Find Your Food Voice podcast, hosted by me, Julie Duffy Dillon. I’m a registered dietitian with 20 years of experience partnering with folks just like you on their food peace journey. What have we learned? Well, cookie cutter approaches exclude too many people, and you don’t need to be fixed. It’s not you. It’s not me. It’s all of us. Only together we can start a movement and fix diet culture. And we will. Let’s begin with now.

Transition music: I want to see how the world turns round…Let’s go adventure in the deep blue sea…home is with you wherever that may be…home is with you wherever that may be.

Julie: Hi and welcome to episode [286] of the Find Your food Voice podcast. I am Julie Duffy Dillon, registered dietitian and partner on your food peace journey. I’m so glad you are here, and I’m excited to share another book review episode with you. I sit down with Yeli Cruz, who is the person who makes all the podcast magic happen behind the scenes. Her along with my audio editor, Toby Lyles, they are the people that actually make all of it happen, and Yeli is someone who is totally a bibliophile, and she is someone who helps find books for um, us to read and review on the show. So we are reviewing a new book called Decolonizing Wellness, and its subtitle is “A Queer Trans Black Indigenous People of Color-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self Image, and Achieve Body Liberation”. So Dalia Kinsey’s book is one that I was waiting for for years and years, and I’m so glad that she wrote it. And as you hear in the episode, we’re excited. Hopefully Dalia has more books that will be happening, hint hint, publishing world. We would love to see next steps. Um, so we are excited to share this review with you, and wonder if you’ve read it, what you think. Let us know. Go to julieduffydillon.com/contact, and there’s a way for you to let us know your thoughts about this review, this book. And also, if you have a book that you would like to hear us review, we would love to hear your opinion. You know, which one would you like to hear us review on the show? So again, go to julieduffydillon.com/contact, and you can contact us and let us know. Um, and if you are someone who is listening to this episode and is like, really paying attention to the episode number, you will notice that the episode we released last week was episode 286 and this is 285, and you’re like what, what what’s going on with that? Well, um I had a horrible cold and could not stop coughing, and so I just really recorded what I could and um, and had to rest my voice. So, we just flip flopped the episodes, because my interview with Kimmie Singh was already ready, and so we let that one go first. So yeah, we did it out of order, whatever, but in case you notice and you’re like, what is going on there? That is why we did that. I needed to rest my voice, and I still have like, lozenges galore, my water cup’s handy. And um, I got through this episode just fine. But anyway, I’m really excited to share this book review with you. But before we get to this book review and hear from the fabulous Yeli Cruz, a quick word from our sponsor.

Julie (ad): This episode of the Find Your Food voice podcast is brought to you by my PCOS roadmap. If you have a complicated relationship with food and you’re living with PCOS, I want to help. If you have PCOS, you’ve probably been told you have to diet, and I know for many of you, you’ve been dieting for years and years. You’ve tried every single one, and you don’t want to do another one, but you don’t know another way. This is where I really like to help and serve you with tools that are rooted in non diet approaches, like intuitive eating, and help you to find ways to explore healthy living and reclaim expert role of your body. So the way to get to this free download is go to julieduffydillon.com/voice. Again, it’s julieduffydillon.com/voice. And you will find the PCOS roadmap and a few other downloads that you may be interested in. So go to julieduffydillon.com/voice and you’ll get right to it.

Julie: Alright, enough about that. Let’s get to my episode discussion- my episode discussion? Let’s get to my discussion with Yeli Cruz about the book Decolonizing Wellness by Dalia Kinsey.

Transition music: Take the good and the ups and downs…I want to see how the world turns around. Home is with you wherever that may be.

Julie: Hey Yeli, how’s it going?

Yeli: Good. How are you?

Julie: Okay, I’m getting over a cold, as I told you, and I have like 62 Halls and Ricolas in front of me, and some tea, but we’re gonna get through thism because I mean, we’ve been talking about Decolonizing Wellness, the book, for a long time, and we’ve had to reschedule because of this stupid cold, but we are ready to talk about it. Um, and I don’t remember which one of us found this book, but it was just exciting to find one that really included many people who are not included in the whole like non-diet conversation. So why don’t you start us off with a little bit about this book.

Yeli: Um yes, totally. So let me just find my little blurb. So basically, um, the author, or the publisher, describes the book as “a body positivity and food freedom book for marginalized folks. It’s a guide to throwing out food rules in exchange for internal cues, and adopting a self-love based approach to eating. It’s about learning to trust our bodies and turning mealtime into a time for celebration and healing.” And a lot of what the, I guess the introduction of the book talks about, is that there’s so many different versions of these types of books written by and for white folks, cis folks, like, just folks that hold a lot of privilege um, in the world. So something that Dalia Kinsey, the author, really wanted to do, was to write essentially like, you know, books that already kind of exist out there, but that are really more catered to queer BIPOC, you know, Black, Indigenous, people of color um, that like, just whose perspective often is not included in those other books.

Julie: Yeah, yeah, like we, we need this, we need many more like this, you know, in order to add to the conversation. So yeah, we definitely appreciate you, Dalia Kinsey, too, for like, writing this to like, start to have a book that is just centered for people who just have never been centered in the, in the non-diet conversation, even though like, really when it comes down to it, like, who started the conversation? Was it the very people who are excluded now? So um, yeah, so why don’t you go ahead, and let’s get started and kind of get into the nitty gritty of this book, you know, your thoughts and what’s come up from you?

Yeli: Let’s do it. Um, awesome. So one of the first things that Dalia kind of says a little bit, but maybe says in like one sentence and then glosses over um, is the idea of using food as an entry point to body liberation. And that was super interesting to me, and when she kind of glossed over it, I was like, oh wait, I wish that we had talked about this a little bit more, because like, that’s really interesting to me. So I wanted to maybe talk about it between the two of us and like, I know that you often talk about how our relationship with food mirrors our relationship, or just like, other aspects of our lives. Um, and that was super interesting to me about how maybe our relationship with food could catapult or just even like, be a parallel to our relationship with body liberation. Yeah, as soon as I read this, I was like, I need to know what Julie thinks about this.

Julie: Well, and when you mentioned that part too, like, I listened to this on the audio version, and so I couldn’t remember where this part was. Like, that’s how like, I’m like, ooo Dalia, like, what do you think? Like, tell us more. Like, yeah, there must be like so much more to this, and um, you know, the thing that I just have noticed working with people one on one as they explore their relationship with food is, it just, it does, it mirrors other experiences, and not only struggles, but also like other parts that maybe are pleasures, parts that feel like, to be in a balance. Um, just the way a person’s related to food seems to just mimic it, and to the point that we can almost use that to our advantage. And one way that many people have done this in sessions with dietitians, you know, if you’re listening and you are recovering from an eating disorder, or maybe that’s something you, you worked through maybe years and years ago, you may have done food challenges in sessions, and you know, if you’re like, what is a food challenge, um, that’s something that people will do in eating disorder recovery if they’re used to just eating certain foods that feel safe. And you know, eating the same foods every day, can just in itself, it can prevent people from getting like, all their vitamins and minerals, and also can block just like, the ability to be flexible with food and manage lots of situations. So, I ate lots of donuts and ate pizza and drank regular coke um, with clients for years and years just to help do some of these food challenges. And um, what I started to notice is as clients were doing these more frequently, and basically taking a risk by eating the donut or whatever it was, or eating the pizza. They were starting to take risks in other areas too. And it was, and, and that’s a really good thing, you know, for some people who were just avoiding a lot of things, and to the point where clients and I would start to talk about it, like, which one would you rather do first, take this kind of risk in this area or take it with the food, because you may notice it helping in the other area. And so, thinking about it for like, body liberation, is this whole new set of possibilities for me, you know, and um, I can’t even contain it. I’m like, there’s just so much that could be within it. And, and I, you know, when you were, when you mentioned this part, I was thinking about something else too, about even how, how we relate to food, like how we were brought up around food, how our culture taught us about food, how that also can connect to um, our own kind of body liberation as it relates to our heritage and cultural kind of traditions. And then but then also from this perspective of like, yeah, you can like start your liberation. I got, I don’t know if that’s what you’re thinking, but like you can start to do this as you are connecting with food. So I don’t know if that’s kind of like in the same ballpark that you were thinking, but that’s, those are my thoughts on that part.

Yeli: Mhm. Totally. I also just think that I guess, like, food and your relationship with food can be such a radical act, in the same way that like, body liberation is very radical, like to navigate eating and to look at food as truly neutral and decide to eat that donut, like you said, when everybody else is telling you that you shouldn’t, that is really radical. And that is like, I think that for people who are a little bit more practiced in food neutrality and like, doing that, it might kind of like, I mean I gloss over it all the time, but um, it’s like, yeah, I don’t know, it’s, it’s such a strong choice to say, no, I’m choosing to view this as neutral and I’m choosing to reclaim this power for myself, and to eat the donut, even after being raised and after being told that you shouldn’t, in the same way that a lot of the time the choice to engage in body liberation and do that work is also radical in that, um, in that same way.

Julie: Yeah, it reminds me that it’s not really the donut, you know? Like um, it’s, I think about queer and trans, Black, Indigenous, and people of color who are like actually eating the foods that people have told them not to eat. How, yeah, it’s not about that food, it’s about like, what you were saying, like basically just choosing this, what, what you want to eat in itself is the radical act. You know? And that’s like the big step that um, in itself is radical. Um, and for other people it may not be as radical, but just choosing that in itself. Um, and that’s why I like, this book again is like, so important, because it does, it’s one of the first books that I’ve read that actually honors that part of it. How it is radical just to exist, and then to exist with food freedom, or whatever word you’re gonna use, is even more radical, you know? And so, um, yeah, there’s a lot, there’s a lot to that. I’m so glad that you caught that caught that part before it like, moved on by about body liberation.

Yeli: Yes! It could be its own book. All of these things could be their own book.

Julie: We’re waiting, Dalia. We’re waiting for the next one.

Yeli: Um, I guess let’s move on, maybe, unless there’s anything else that you want to talk about.

Julie: Yeah, that sounds good!

Yeli: Okay. Um there was, so to give context, there is a part of the book where Dalia essentially just like, gives context to the fact that queer, Black, Indigenous, people of color, people who kind of fall under that umbrella in whatever way um, have different lived experience than um, other folks that hold privilege, that are white, cisgender able bodies, etcetera. Um, and she’s talking about how there’s really a lack of research done um, about the ways that stress and diet culture and the patriarchy and all of these things really affect queer BIPOC folks, and then she says, I’m going to actually quote a bit of her book, she says, “even though there is not an abundance of research to reference, let’s not undervalue our lived experiences.” Um, and I just loved that, and I think that that was also like a, ping, Julie’s said this, moment for me because that’s something that you talk about so much as well, is that um, yeah, I don’t know like, the, there’s so much value in just your own experience and knowing your own truth.

Julie: So much.

Yeli: Um, and that really becomes the basis of, I guess the practice of decolonizing wellness that Dalia writes about, is like, there’s a lot of journaling exercises and just like, sitting in your own lived experience in your own truth and owning it is such a crucial part of the book. Um, what do you think about that?

Julie: Yeah. Well, and when you were reading it and she stated that like did it, did you really where, did you feel like the permission to like believe your own evidence then? Like is that something that you got from reading it?

Yeli: Absolutely.

Julie: That’s so awesome. Yeah. That’s so cool. Yeah, like that. Um, we have like, research but like who’s being researched? Like it’s such a like, a similar group of people and so many people are missed, missed out on, and like, Dalia’s is also a dietitian like myself and there’s this big kind of push for the phrase “evidence based practice” in our work. And if you don’t have evidence then you can’t use it. Like there’s even some discussion and some um, execution for um, not allowing dietitians to practice unless they’re using evidence based practice. And what most people think of when they think of evidence based practice is research, you know, like having this um, journal article that you can cite for the reason why you’re using this method. And if you don’t have a citation, well then we’re not going to cover this visit, you know? Or something like that. But evidence based practice actually includes three different things. It includes like, journal articles that you can find on Google scholar, but it also includes practice based evidence, like, as a clinician, as clinicians, Dalia and I like, we have observed things, you know, over 20 years, you start to like notice, oh, I have this other like set of evidence that’s not consistent with the evidence that researchers have found, and why is that? Well, you know, researchers aren’t actually asking all the right questions, and they’re not asking everyone, you know? And, and so, um when you’re working with an individual and they’re like, yeah, I’ve been dieting since I was in preschool, and they’re now 45, I think that’s enough evidence that diet’s aren’t going to work for them, you know? Like I don’t care what the research says outside of this human being, but like, their data pretty strongly suggests that it’s not gonna be helpful for them but um, okay, so um, evidence based practice is like you know journal articles, practice based evidence, and then the other one is like, what is actually accessible for that person? Like that’s the third arm of it. And that’s what I, when I was reading this book, I was like, she’s using all of it. She’s using all of it. So like um, you can’t undervalue your own evidence, especially if you are someone that lives in the margins here, and that the world excludes um, your evidence, your own personal lived experience is going to give you so much more data. Yeah. Than any other like um, I don’t know, Lancet article is going to give you.

Yeli: Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I mean, imagine how many more like resources and I don’t know, just like, fixes, I guess. I don’t know if there’s a, I don’t know if “fix” is the right word, but imagine how much more evolved we would be in like, the practice of wellness for like queer BIPOC people if uh, there was like an abundance of research done for it. Like that’s such a, an unfortunate gap in that practice, I guess.

Julie: Well and you know the thing that I really loved about how this book was layered was it started with like, how harmful it was to live in a world that treats your body like it’s not acceptable. Like, how that is harmful. And how that creates um, disease. And you know, that’s something that I think that so many of us miss out on when we think about like, what is healthy eating? Well, it’s not necessarily like how many fruits and vegetables, it’s like, how much power do you have in this world? That’s where we start. And then how do we help you have enough power so then you can be well, and then we can talk about fruits and vegetables if you want. But like, for most people, it’s gonna be a moot point. You know, it’s, it’s really gonna make it so it’s so much more evened out. Um, and that’s what I saw with this book was like, it started with that, you know, and um, you know, in my, in my course PCOS Power, that’s why I start with that too, like really naming the neglect that people have gone through with PCOS with just like, diagnosis and like how they were gaslit and not really told everything and said it was all in their head, like how that was harmful, and lead to so many of these symptoms just becoming so um, so much bigger and bigger and um, kept you from really like, claiming what you needed to be well. So anyway. Yeah, so I wanted to mention that too. I was really glad to see that. And so many nutrition books don’t, they may like mention like, for like a sentence or two but that’s it.

Yeli: No, I agree. That’s a lot of nutrition books that I’ve read also very much heavily rely on research in a way that I think Dalia gives us permission not to. Yes. Moving on. I did want to talk about, so there’s a part where Dalia speaks to um, I guess the practice of “emotional eating”, quote unquote, for lack of a better word, or stress eating, or I guess, what I like to call eating as a source of comfort, or as a source of like, yeah, comfort is the word I would use, I guess. Um, and she says a lot of good things about it and kind of talks about I guess, the, the stress relief that it has or like, the comfort. But I think that when I was reading it and, and you and I have talked about this, it like didn’t come with as much unconditional permission to eat what brings you comfort as I would have wanted. Um, which I think is tricky to like, unpack fully, because it’s hard to necessarily like dissect intent when you’re talking about books like these, like author intention, but for anybody who does read the book, I just wanted to mention that if you need unconditional permission to use food as comfort, this is me granting you a conditional permission to do that. [Laughs]

Julie: [Laughs] Did you see that, the magic wand? Like bibbidi bobbidi boo, you just like. [Laughs] I like what, how you, what you called it eating for comfort? What did you say?

Yeli: Yeah, like eating, eating for comfort. Yeah.

Julie: Yeah, I love that, because overeating, even emotional eating, stress eating, like maybe clinically they’re describing the same thing as what you’re describing. But we know the connotation is different. Like, I can’t use the word overeating. Like I just, it’s, it’s something that feels really loaded and um, judgmental, and that’s like just, it’s almost I can feel like a little like tick or something in me that just is like, ah, that, that’s not, that’s not a word I’m gonna use, and and emotional eating, unfortunately, like I do think emotional eating is like normal, like we all emotionally eat. Um, but it also is one that has kind of a loaded term to it, and something that um, I struggle with in writing is being able to describe all this nuance. And that’s why I do podcasts. [Laughs] One of them is because, it does, I mean, I’ve gotten complaints about my grammar. Whatever. Um, but I feel like it’s like, a little bit more easy for me to see, a little bit more easy? [Laughs] Right there, there’s, but it’s different, it just feels like I can really go as deep as I want and it doesn’t matter as much if there’s like, grammatical mistakes, and I can go really into the nuance with words when I’m speaking, and I just find books are harder at that. And I’ve had some client interactions where people will talk about books, and especially like memoirs, where people talk about their recovery, and they’ll talk about their struggles and then my clients will say, well they were talking about their struggles and I was really understanding, and then they were talking about getting better, but they missed the part of like, how they actually did it, like almost like more. And that’s what I was wanting in this too, is like, the more, and maybe there was supposed to be more, you know, I think about like on the editing floor, is it on a floor? I don’t know, editing room. I don’t know, I don’t know anything about that process. But um, I would have loved to have more in there. And also, yeah, I’ve, I’ve tried to write about this part before, and I have struggled and rewritten and rewritten. I just put out an email yesterday to people who are on the email list, in case you want to join, I do write about this stuff, julieduffydillon.com. But I basically looked at an old blog post that I had written, I mean maybe five or six years ago, and it was about when relying on hunger feels scary, and when, I spent a lot of time on that blog post, because I was really trying to have, unconditional permission to eat is like my 100% foundation. If it doesn’t pass that, then I can’t, I’m not gonna be doing it. Like permission and healing are everything for me. Um, I think there I always prioritized those, but when I read through this black post, again, five or six years old, I was like, oh, this isn’t passing my test, and I wrote it. And so I was like, I got, I got to rewrite it. And I’m sure if I reread what I wrote that, a year from now, I’ll probably again be like, no. And so there’s something to that too. I think that like there’s a lot of nuance, and everyone’s gonna be individual what they need. So um, so yeah, I agree. Like I was like, I want, I wish there was more time really dissecting this, and maybe that’s where more permission would come in. Um, or maybe not, maybe it still wouldn’t have been in the amount that um, you or many other people would need in order to like, have that permission. Has there ever been a book you’ve read where you’re like, oh yeah, they gave me permission. I’m totally putting you on the spot, I’m sorry. [Laughs]

Yeli: [Laughs] No, all good. Honestly, no. I don’t think so, um, and I think that part of it is just that I think it’s really difficult to write about food in a way that doesn’t just add more “shoulds”. Like I think that it’s really difficult to write about it in a way that doesn’t take away certain rules, but just add other rules in place of that. And I think that part of it is just that, like you said, everybody kind of craves something different. Like I understand that in, in the sense that like, I approach food and I need unconditional permission to just like eat anything. It probably like, for other people would be comforting to have some sort of like, structure to the way they approach food. Um.

Julie: Ooo, good point. That’s a really good point, because yeah, like, I would imagine where you are now versus, I say you, I mean, and you the listener too, but like, where you are now is probably different than 10 years ago and 5 years ago. And for some people in the beginning, oftentimes I use the word like guardrails, like people need like, just something to kind of help it not feel like flailing as far as it can flail, like a little bit more contained, and then allow the flailing 100%. And um, that’s actually what my, the thing I just wrote, I was telling you about, it was really trying to describe that, and it’s so hard to describe a little bit of guardrails with unconditional permission, but it’s important, like we need to keep trying to do that. It’s a really important step. And, and maybe that’s part of this book too, if you’re someone who that’s what you’re really craving, first, we don’t know a book yet, and you just may need to supplement it with working with someone who can also continue to help you decolonize wellness, as Dalia describes. You know, maybe like an actual human being um, for right now, is as best we can do to help with that process. So. So yeah.

Yeli: Is there anything that you wanted to say before we move on?

Julie: I think that’s, that’s about it, for you? Anything else on that?

Yeli: I don’t think so. Um, one of the last things that I wanted to mention about this book, I, a little bit of recommended reading. Should I? Yes. [Laughs]

Julie: Yeah. You should. [Laughs]

Yeli: Um, so there’s, and it’s like an academic article but don’t let that scare you because it’s written in a very accessible way. Um, and it’s called “Decolonization is Not a Metaphor” by Eve Tuck and K. Wayne Yang. Um, and it’s something that I always think about when people use the word “decolonize” or “decolonization” in anything, because their, I guess um, thesis, argument, what, what you will call it, is that like decolonization is not a metaphor, um, in, and I’ll elaborate. But basically, a lot of people use the word decolonization to mean, like, I don’t even know what they use it to mean, but just like we hear it-

Julie: I know, yeah.

Yeli: We hear it in schools, like, decolonizing education, decolonizing wellness, decolonizing healthcare. And we don’t really think about what the word itself actually means. And essentially what the people who wrote this article talked about is the fact that like, decolonizing means giving back land. Like, it’s not a metaphor and treating it like a metaphor is not beneficial to who we think it is. Um, and that there’s like, you know, obviously, it’s all nuanced but there is like a harm that is done in treating decolonization like something that is this idea floating around in the universe rather than something very concrete which is to give land back to the people that you, that like it has been stolen from and, do that practice in reality. Um, so kind of veering from the book itself. But something that always like, pops up in my mind whenever that word is used.

Julie: Oh, I can’t wait to read it. Yeah. I haven’t read that. I remember seeing it come through like a scroll experience at some point. But I didn’t read it. I need to. So I will access it via the show notes when this episode finishes.

Yeli: Totally.

Julie: Awesome thank you for mentioning that.

Yeli: Yeah, totally! So yes. I guess to wrap up, Julie, what type of person or reader would you recommend this book to?

Julie: Mmhmm. So I have thought about this a lot since I’ve been reading it, and I, as I’ve been doing my, my anti racist work and like wanting to connect with resources that are different than the ones I have been recommending typically, you know like, what, who would I recommend this to? I’m like I can see myself using this um, or the book, I don’t know like Intuitive Eating or Anti-Diet, like the Anti-Diet and Intuitive Eating are often like two of the resources that I’d offer in the beginning when someone was at like diet rock bottom, um, maybe not someone in early stages of eating disorder recovery, but in a place where their brain was getting enough consistent nutrition that they were starting to like, appreciate how their relationship with food currently was not matching up with values that they had, and like some, just you know, how we want to treat humans in the world and you know, treat people with dignity, it wasn’t matching up, and so often Intuitive Eating and Anti-Diet were two books that I would recommend. And so I’m like, oh I can kind of see this being added to that, and and I’m like, who would I offer this to? I mean like, any client um, but also someone who is at that diet rock bottom, like new to the whole conversation, and again, like how Dalia sets this up to the foundation is, your body does not need to be fixed. The world is fucked up, and we need you fueled so we can fix this shit, or you know, like that um, I love that kind of setup, and I love that. Like that’s what’s prioritized in it, and I, that’s what I wish every nutrition book was prioritized like, in that order, and I think for some people who maybe have been in the body liberation space or fat liberation, even identifying as that, they may be really excited about this book, but they also may find it’s not giving them maybe this like, the next steps. But I mean that’s also not for me to decide, like there may be plenty of people in that space who are like, no, I’m getting a lot from it. Just even having it is like, a lot.

Yeli: It’s such a win, yeah.

Julie: Such a win! And I can’t wait for more. I’m like, and I was like, I wonder if Dalia has like two or three more to add to this. Like I, is there a part two and part three? Because I have a feeling there is more, you know, and that’s where I think more people who maybe have been um, in the fat liberation space um, will be able to find like their next steps and yeah, what, what are you thinking for like, who do you think this book like, who needs to have this book? Who would benefit from it?

Yeli: Mhm, I agree. I think that it would be really useful for people who just, still are seeking to learn kind of that foundation of what, I guess, body liberation and like, all of that good stuff is, also I guess like people, who people who really love a journaling exercise would love this book.

Julie: Oh yeah! We didn’t talk about that at all, the exercises are great.

Yeli: Yeah, there’s so much like, so much good reflection work in there. Um, I do agree that like, for some people who are more like, in the trenches of body liberation work and like have really done their reading, it might um, like not in a negative way at all, but it might just be like, nothing new, like nothing that they don’t already know, but I think that it could be a really good companion to a book like Belly of the Beast or something more radical, and I think that they could like, work together really well.

Julie: Oh, I’m even thinking, okay, so the Body is Not An Apology, and Belly of the Beast, and Fearing the [Black] Body have been come really the first three now that I like to recommend, I mentioned earlier, Intuitive Eating and Anti-Diet and like, so like, those five are often like, here, these are the things like, if you like to read, these are the things that um, I encourage and so um, I’m like even in the order, yeah, companion to Belly of the Beast, before or after The Body is Not an Apology. I don’t know if there’s a good answer to that, maybe just companion as well.

Yeli: Yeah, tune in.

Julie: Yeah, because I think of yeah, The Body is Not an Apology, like the kind of like, if you get a lot from the journal prompts in Decolonizing Wellness, I can see how Sonya Renee Taylor’s book would be really like, that would give you some good like, next steps too. So anyway, oh my gosh, such a good discussion, thank you, thank you Dalia Kinsey for like writing this book, and for the publishers publishing it. Let’s get some more like it. And I do hope Dalia has like a part two and part three.

Yeli: I know, me too! We need all of the Dalia content.

Julie: Yeah, I think it could be awesome. Yes, Dalia, we love your content. Let’s get you um, have some more like, so hopefully there’s some, some nice book deals for Dalia in the future. Um before we end, is there anything else that you wanted to include that we haven’t put out there.

Yeli: I don’t think so. Thank you so much for having me on.

Julie: Oh yeah, well thanks for the book recommendation, and I don’t think we have a next book yet, as I’m like, usually we talk about the next book but we don’t have one yet. So if you are reading something that you think that Yeli and I need to talk about on the podcast, let us know, you can just go to my website julieduffydillon.com on the contact page, there’s a place where you can put that in there. So we’ll get it. Um, yeah, what’s next? I can’t wait to find out. Well have a good rest of your day. Thanks Yeli.

Yeli: You too. Bye.

Julie: So there you have it. I hope you enjoyed our book review episode. Um Yeli and I love doing these book reviews. We love having an excuse to talk about these books. You know, it’s really fun for us to read them and discuss them. So thank you for listening. And if you have a recommendation for us, a book that you want to hear us review, please let us know, we are scheduling out the rest of Find Your Food Voice podcast episodes for the rest of 2022. And so we’d love to hear your recommendation. Go to julieduffydillon.com/contact, and there’s a place right there to give us your recommendation.

Julie: And if you enjoyed this episode, we are so glad and I would love it and appreciate it if you left us a rating, a review, doing those acts of kindness really, really helps. And if you’ve already left us a rating or review, well, would you be willing to go leave a rating or review for another independent podcaster? Yes, independent podcasting has been around for a long time. I’ve been doing this podcast for I think about six years now, and it was easier for people to find my podcast back then, but it’s a lot harder now because big corporations have begun to appreciate how really cool podcasting is. And so they’re taking up a lot of space, making a lot of noise. So if you’ve already left me a rating or review, would you be willing right now to go give another independent podcaster a rating or review? It really helps the show grow, helps more people find the show. So I just want to see other independent podcasters also be able to take up some space. So thank you in advance, and remember this episode of Find Your Food Voice was brought to you by my PCOS roadmap. If you have a complicated relationship with food and you’re living with PCOS, I want to help. This PCOS roadmap gives you the first three steps to moving away from diets while living with PCOS. Go to julieduffydillon.com/voice, and you’ll find that download and a few others that you may be interested in. So again, it’s julieduffydillon.com/voice. Alright, that’s the end of this week’s episode. I look forward to talking to you again next week, and until next time, take care.

Julie: Thank you for listening. I am Julie Duffy Dillon, and this is the Find your Food Voice podcast. Ready to join the anti diet movement and take the food voice pledge? Go to julieduffydillon.com and sign your name to the growing list of people saying no to diets and yes to their own food voice. The Find Your Food Voice podcast is produced by me, Julie Duffy Dillon, and my team of kick ass folks. I couldn’t make the show without Yeli Cruz, Assistant Producer and Resident Book Fiend. And Coleen Bremner, Customer Service Coordinator and professional Hype Master. Audio editing is from Toby Lyles at 24 Sound. Music is Fly Free by Hartley. Are you looking for episode transcripts? Get them at julieduffydillon.com, where you can also submit letters for the podcast, give us feedback, and sign the Food Voice pledge. We need your voice to end diet culture. We literally can’t do this without you. Subscribe to the Find Your Food Voice podcast to get weekly inspiration and education on how we can defeat diet culture and reclaim our own food voice. I look forward to seeing you here next week for another episode of the Find Your Food Voice podcast. Take care.