If you’re curious about what it looks like to stop pursuing weight loss, click here for some fabulous freebies that will help guide you in your journey!

Click here to leave me a review on iTunes and subscribe. This type of kindness helps the show continue!

Find FREE food voice resources here.

Thank you for supporting Find Your Food Voice!

Julie: Hey there, welcome to episode 389 of the Find Your Food Voice  podcast. I am Julie Duffy Dillon, registered dietitian and your host. Welcome to this Diet Culture IRL special chat where we are unpacking Halloween. The candy, the costumes and all the like diet culture bullshit that has been woven in over the years. Before we get into the episode. I want you to consider a Halloween memory that you have. If you celebrate Halloween and you’ve gone door to door trick or treating and collected candy, what positive memories do you have, if any, about this time? You know, do you remember dumping out all your candy at the end of the night, sorting through it, picking out your favorite ones? Do you remember the temperature that it was outside? I grew up in Ohio, so I distinctly remember the question that we all just debated as seven year olds, eight year olds was like, do we put our costume on underneath our winter coat or over our winter coat? And that was like the big debate because you always chose your costume when it was still warm. And so by the time October 31st rolled around, yeah, we needed our coats. So I, It’s so funny how I’m like immediately brought back just even thinking about it. And a part of that anchor to that memory, of course, is the candy. And it’s okay that we enjoy the candy. And we live in this culture where we’re told we can’t trust ourselves around candy, that sugar is bad, that we are bad around it. And we should not let it in our house. Hence the switch witch and other types of means that people have gone through to just not keep the candy in the house. So Coleen and I unpack all of this. And while some of it is not a finished kind of, like we don’t have like a way to make it better because we’re just two individuals, I hope it does weave together for you. You know, this is Halloween and this is the work that we all need to collectively do to help the next generation to be able to feel okay around all foods, including candy, like Reeces cups, my absolute favorite. So anyway, we are gonna get to this episode and my conversation with Coleen about Halloween, but we’re gonna have a very quick sponsor break and we’ll be right back.

Julie: Hey Coleen, how are you doing?

Coleen: Hi Julie, I’m good, it’s October, the leaves are changing. It’s that time of year. I love when it starts to get cooler.

Julie: Me too. Actually, I just for the first time turned on the heater in my office and last year near the end of spring it wasn’t working and I was like, I’m just going to turn it off and pretend like I didn’t see it not working. And then when I need it, I’ll deal with it then. And somehow it fixed itself. Thank you. Sometimes ignoring things makes things better.

Coleen: Yay! See? It just needed a breather.

Julie: Sometimes ignoring things makes things better.

Coleen: I agree, I agree.

Julie: So I wanted to start off by talking about our favorite Halloween memories. And actually, before we get started, dear listener, just know Rachel was supposed to be here with us, but she’s doing her civic duty with jury duty. Hey, Rachel, we miss you. I want to hear about your favorite Halloween memories too. But yeah, Coleen, tell me about your favorite Halloween memories.

Coleen: Oh my gosh, Halloween, feel like as a kid is just so fun because you get to pretend to be somebody else for a day, like, which is really fun and then also like the reward of candy, like going door to door and getting candy from like rando people, which is, don’t know, just growing up was such a delight. so yeah, some of my favorite Halloween memories, honestly, are more after the trick or treating happened with my brother who’s eight years older than I am. So we would do this like barter and trade situation where we dump all of our candy out on the living room floor and be like, okay, I have like three Reese’s and I will trade you like one Reese’s for a Kit Kat, cause I want more Kit Kat’s or like whatever the case may be. And oftentimes like we would just, and then we’d put all like, the our like no thank you candy in a pile and be like, okay, who can we give this to? Who can we trade with at school? We would just honestly be thinking about like our bartering system and how we were gonna get like the most bang for our candy buck.

Julie:I love that.

Coleen: So those are some of my favorite memories. And honestly, like also just having candy like last for what felt like forever in our household. Cause like in our household, you know, my mom had like certain rules around like, okay, like this is the amount of candy that like you can eat at the end of the day or like with each meal or whatever, which I’m sure lots of households have different rules about candy intake and like what you can take to school. And you know, those types of things. My mom’s  like, can’t take anything with peanuts to school. you know, there were just those types of things, but. Yeah, lots of fond memories with my brother. And, you know, because he was eight years older, like oftentimes I feel like it fell to him to take me trick or treating. So I don’t know if that’s a fond memory for him, but it is a fond memory for me.

Julie: Yeah, I bet. Yeah, I bet it is. I bet it is. that’s so sweet. Yeah. So I have a similar experience. It’s funny that we both are kind of remembering this part. Like I don’t, I have some memories of actually going door to door when I was really little and being scared of costumes. And you know, this was the 80s. So I think there wasn’t as much conversation about like, hey, maybe you shouldn’t have a super scary costume at seven o’clock at night, you know, with like little kids walking around. And I also lived in the Midwest. And so like you would have to try to figure out a way to like keep your costume on but stay warm. So you would either like have to wear your coat over your costume or try to put it over your coat. That was always kind of the big question. But yeah, my favorite memories, I have two brothers, one is four years older and the other one’s four years younger. So I have, My favorite memories are like dumping out the pillowcases, because that’s what we used, I don’t know if you did, to get my candy. And the times I had fun going door to door was when I was just with my brothers. Like my parents didn’t come with us, or I don’t remember them being there, because maybe my older brother was taking care of us. And so our pillowcases were heavy, you know? And spending so much time like organizing and categorizing the food like the the candy from like the chocolate was in one section. And then there was even like, almost like subreddits, like there was a peanut butter chocolate section. And then there was Reese cups and then like off brand, you know, so like there was like sub subreddits. 

Coleen: Right, yeah, which went in its own category. Yeah, yeah.

Julie: Yes. And we did we would spend so much time the first night like bartering and I think now about like the power of negotiation that we learned and candy bartering but I for at least a good week or two after Halloween we’d come home from school dump the pillowcases out and reorganize and and barter some more until we got to a point where we probably forgot about it or all the good stuff was gone and It’s really fun to like connect and like I’m really reliving the memories and like the goofiness. I don’t remember the tummy aches. I don’t remember like this food was bad. I don’t remember many rules about it, which is probably in itself its own privilege. I don’t remember my parents being like, you can’t have blah, blah, blah. They may have, but I don’t remember that. I just remember like laughing with the candy with my brothers. Like that’s how my brain is like searing it all together, which I don’t know like, if you’re gonna go door to door asking for candy on Halloween, I’m like, I hope that everybody gets to experience like the joy of that, you know. So fun.

Coleen: Yeah. I also remember like certain houses having full-size candy bars and us knowing like exactly where those houses were and that we knew we needed to hit them before the night was over. Like, cause we also, 

Julie: Come on, you went more than once, right? Didn’t you try to go more than once?

Coleen: for sure. Because I would go and then my brother would swap out and go and we would definitely like plan it out to try to like hit it again before we made it home, before that was our rule. like first and last half. before the streetlights turned on, we had to be home. So we had like the streetlight rule. And so yeah, we were just running that town.

Julie: Yeah, that’s what it felt like. And what about the houses that gave out raisins? I mean, or pencils?

Coleen: or like also like sometimes religious paraphernalia. Like we got those too. And no, we got like booklets and papers and stuff. that was in its, yes, that was in its own separate like pile of like that was uncalled for. But again, as a kid, yeah, I wasn’t, yeah, I wasn’t like,

Julie: Yeah, the priests used to live in my neighborhood and yeah. And I think they gave out candy though. I don’t think they gave out anything stupid.Someone always gave out a New Testament booklet, yeah.

Yeah, like, I guess I’m to keep it in there, but what am I going to do with it? Yeah.

Coleen:  I wasn’t, yeah, I wasn’t like, paying attention to what was on the paper as much as I was like, why did they give me paper and not candy?

Julie: Yes. Okay, so something that I was thinking about as we’re like preparing this episode is, you know, my kids are older now, so they go trick or treating on their own. And I’m like, what’s the conversation at this point? Because when my kids were little, there was like the switch witch and all these different like ways to like give fake candy. What’s going on now? Because you have this new wee one. So what are the parents talking about right now?

Coleen: Yeah, so there the switch which is still very much alive and cackling. Like she is here. And it’s kind of like Elf on the Shelfie in that there is a new book called. Yeah, it’s called Switchcrafted. And it’s called like it’s the story of switch witches of Halloween, which I actually think is really cute. It seems like very cute, but I think that how we talk about the switch witch is way more important than like the actual switch witch idea. So I think like it’s a really fun idea to run with at home if like you have a child with food intolerance and you know, there’s. something there that is like, you know, maybe a dangerous food for them to have. know peanut allergies are huge and peanuts are in a lot of Halloween candy. So it could be a really great way to, you know, kind of swap out some things. Because the idea of the switch witch is that, you know, this witch comes, she’s a good witch, so not a scary witch, and like switches out some of the candies from Halloween for different items. Maybe it’s like a playbook or like, you know, something that your child enjoys, which I think, you know, in and of itself is not inherently a bad thing. I think the way we talk about this, which, which can probably get a little diet culturey if we’re talking about, you know, putting some sort of like uncomfortable definition or some definition of like, this candy is good. This candy is bad. You know, once we start getting into those descriptors, that’s kind of where it gets a little bit tricky with the switch witch so yeah, I just was going to say I’m a firm believer in letting kids enjoy their candy without boundaries apart from removing any choking hazards.

Julie: Yeah, of course. And like food allergies and things like that. And I probably need to dig into see like what actually was the reason the switch witch was invented. But when my kids were little, that the having this like place to give the candy was not coming from a place of like, it’s because of your food intolerances or allergies. It was more like, you do not need this much candy around. Like, you’re just going to eat it all. Which of course, that’s what we do with candy, we eat it. Of course we’re gonna eat it. And I was really bothered by it. the thing with the switch witch that really bothered me was it was taking away this opportunity for people to experience or young people to experience fun food, and a holiday, a time to experience food with that laughter that we were talking about in the beginning, like, if you’re giving all that candy away, because it’s bad, or because you shouldn’t eat all this. What is that doing? And, and I also like the the origins that I know about the switch witch again, I need to go deeper and make sure that I’m actually correct on this. But the way that it was always explained to me is like, parents didn’t want to have that much candy around. And so this was the solution. They would pay the kids or pay kids or say, if you give give me all your candy, I will buy you whatever you want. And for me, what this spoke to is how uncomfortable adults were around things with sugar in it. You know, like it wasn’t about not trusting the kids, was like, I don’t feel comfortable or safe around this food. And so it’s either, I just don’t want it around me, or I don’t want my, or just projecting that onto kids to try to shield them from having that. by, it takes away the experience. Like candy is always gonna be around. Like we’re not always gonna have a switch witch to give candy to.

Coleen: And from what I know of other parenting stories that I’ve heard, oftentimes when something is a forbidden quote unquote food or a hidden food, they end up wanting it more or hoarding it or like stashing it and eating it secretly. Like there can be a lot of different ways that that can like come about for a child or a person like, you know, throughout their years. And I think that Again, like if you’re using the switch witch, I don’t know, maybe a modification of the switch witch would be just like we were talking about dumping our pile of candy out into the center of the floor, picking all the things you know you love. Like I’m a Reese’s girl, I’m a Kit Kat girl. Like I want the Hershey’s with almonds. Like, you know, taking all of the things that you really enjoy and then making another pile of things maybe you don’t enjoy as much. And maybe that’s the pile that goes to the Switch Witch if you want to swap out for books or, you know, crayons or, you know, maybe it’s a coupon for a date night with a parent. Like it can be so many other different types of things if like that’s something you still want to, you know, have as a fun. Again, to me, it adds to the experience of having like this fun idea of like a Switch Witch who comes and like gives you something different for the candy you don’t like. I don’t know. 

Julie: Mm-hmm. But what I would even counter that is like, what if it was still candy then? Like, what if you switched out the candy for the candy you wanted or someone with a food allergy who couldn’t, maybe someone has celiac disease, so they can’t tolerate gluten. And so all the gluten candy went in there, gluten containing candy would go in there. And the Skittles and the Starburst, which I think are all gluten free, I could be wrong, though.I think skittles are at least. And that you know, would just get reimbursed with those and just switch them out. So people could still have the candy experience. And I mean, I, this is one of those hills that I die on because like, people need to learn how to be around food. because like you said, like the green couch behind me, so many people have sat there and told me about when they learned to hide their food cravings and how to be ashamed of what they were eating and to eat in secret. And these are the experiences that yeah, that would build up to that. And, you know, if you want your kid to be a healthy eater, you know, however you define that today, it may, which if you define healthy eating as like eating fruits and vegetables and not a lot of candy, I guess, I don’t know, then yeah, maybe the switch witch  will do it. But if you want your kid to be an adult that eats a variety of food and doesn’t eat in shame and secret, then allowing candy at Halloween is going to be one of the stepping stones for that, you know, because it gives people exposure and it gives people a chance to get feedback from their body if they’re going to get feedback where like, when I eat a lot of chocolate on an empty stomach, I don’t feel great or I get diarrhea or something like that, you know, it gives people information that’s Yeah, it’s uncomfortable. I know some parents are like, I don’t want them to get a tummy ache. They’re gonna be okay. You it’s like when someone is learning how to walk and they fall down, like you need to fall down, you know?

Coleen: Yeah, they’re gonna learn. Yeah.

Julie: Yeah. And I think if you’re wanting some kind of like structure with how to actually navigate it, some people are like, do I just make it a free for all? Do I like hold on to it? What do I do? And, and honestly, this is just a suggestion. So if you don’t need this, you don’t need it. But one of the things that I did with my kids is when they came home from trick or treating, and they did the big pile sorting and all that they wanted to eat it. And so I let them eat it. And I learned over the years to put like a trash can right near there because what was happening is they would take a bite and some candy they didn’t like. And so I just let them throw it out. Like if they’re like, try to lollipop and they didn’t like the flavor, I wasn’t like, save it, throw it away, you know? And so what I found is within that first day, a lot of it was gone because either they tried it and didn’t like it. And they really just wanted to try all the different like colorful things, right?

Julie: And so the first day it was like, yeah, just have whatever you want. And the same with the second day, whenever you want to just go to it. And there was a lot of sorting and sampling just like the day before. And around like the third ish day, there was starting to be some boredom with it. And so that’s when I kind of started just like having the candy as part of meals and snacks. Like when they come home from school, be like, can I have some my candy? But yeah, that let’s just make that your afternoon snack. I’ll pour you a glass of milk and they would have at it. And after a few days of that, then it just came down to like the small amount of candy left that there were not, it wasn’t the exciting candy anymore. So at that point, I almost always would be like, hey y’all after today, this is just gonna be one big bowl of candy. So we’re all sharing, you can’t, know. So if there’s one last Reese cup that you wanna claim, those are the ones I always took out of their candy. They’re old enough, I can share that with them now. took all the Reese Cups. But whatever they wanted, you know, I was like, it’s gonna be community now. And so then it just became a part of snack time or like, as I was cleaning up for dinner, I’m like, Hey, do you want to have some candy from your Halloween stash? And so like slowly it dwindled away. And my my son the other day was like, Mom, is this still some Halloween candy? And I was like, It may be because like sometimes when we get like candy from like birthday parties or something, and it’s the parts that not everybody wants to eat right away, we just kind of put it in this one container. And so yeah, there’s a few things that are still like from Halloween, but they’re like the stuff like the tootsie rolls. Those are the ones that last forever in my house. They take out all my dental work. So I don’t enjoy them. But yeah, so that’s something that I would encourage you to play around with. And that kind of system comes from Ellyn Satter, you know, the someone I talked a lot about on here. And so she has a whole article on her website on how to do that. And I also have an article on the switch witch on my website that I was just looking at it is from 2017. That’s what I was like, is there still a switch witch, but we’ll put a link to that in the show notes to just for a little bit more on that. Yeah, so I can’t wait for your little one to be old enough to start doing this. And, you know, just to see what that experience is like for you.

Coleen:I know I’m already thinking about, I’m already thinking about, know, I’m actually reading a book you recommended, Julie, it’s called Born to Eat. And it’s such a wonderful resource about introducing foods in an anti-diet way at a young, early age, my child is now eight months. And it’s been so interesting and challenging to figure out, this could be a whole episode in and of itself, so I won’t go too far into it, but. I do think one of the options in this book is kind of like a no thank you bowl. And I think that’s a really great way to, know, maybe something like that with candy as well. You know, you’re talking about they taste it and they decide they don’t like it, it goes in the trash. Maybe, you know, if they know there’s candies they don’t like or they don’t want, adding that to a pile and maybe encouraging like a donation to a local place that, you know, some of the kids might like to have some of the candy that they don’t necessarily enjoy teaching some other different values that may be important in your own household. So I’m already getting excited about all of the different ways that this might be able to play out in future Halloweens to come.

Julie: I’m thinking about it like, maybe we can have one of the co-authors on, Leslie Schilling. She’s someone that I’ve gotten to know over the years. So that would be fun. And then you could ask her questions.

Coleen: Yes!I would love that.

Julie:  I know that would be great. Well, tell me what other Halloween issues have been coming up for you lately?

Coleen: Julie, it happens every year and I wish I could say it didn’t, but it’s the fatphobic costumes. And I feel like some of them are even fatphobic and like cultural appropriation. So I’d love to kind of chat about those. Every year I kind of stroll Spirit Halloween as one does to get inspiration for. You know, this is our first family Halloween, so we want to do something family oriented. So we’re trying to get creative with our costumes, but seeing all of these different fatphobic costumes, I want to take them all, put them in the spirit Halloween cart and be like, take these off the shelves. So here’s what I’m seeing. one was labeled as “funny fat suit Halloween”. One is a Thor. I think it said Thor, I don’t know if you’ve seen any of the Marvel movies, it’s like “Thor like loses himself”. And I’m using quotation marks as well. Listener, I know you can’t see me, but I am. There’s another one that’s called “Fat Superhero” with the image of a pizza like stamped on the chest. And then, sumo wrestler, which should just be off the shelves by now. 

Julie: Mm I mean, come on, we know better. Let’s stop. I mean, none of these should be but especially the sumo wrestler costume, even at my like local minor league baseball team, they don’t do those anymore. And they had that for a long time. Come on, if they can learn it, anybody can.

Coleen: Yeah. Anybody. And then the last but certainly not least, which I found particularly offensive slash triggering was a pregnant person. So yeah, there’s just a little list of some of the fat phobic costumes I came across this year. And I think, you know, given the technology of the inflatable suit, I think that that’s something that creates this kind of like, we think it’s funny because it’s like an inflatable and it’s really just not funny. And there’s no reason why anyone should be dressing up for Halloween in like someone else’s body type in a way that feels demeaning, immoralizing. And it’s just really not funny. So Yeah, some of the wording on the costumes, like funny fat suit. was like, why is that funny? I wanted to ask the like creator, like, why is this funny to you? And then like the Thor when he loses himself, it’s like, again, playing into this like image of like, like, he lost his job, like he’s let himself go. And now he’s fat. Like, it’s this narrative that is just very like, it’s tired. can we come up with something new? Like the fat superhero that’s an inflatable costume with the like superhero insignia on the chest and then a pizza. Like again, like now tying pizza, this type of food to fatness and laziness and you know, kind of all of these different things. And I think what really bothers me about some of these is like, again, our children are so like impressionable.

Coleen: And if these are still the messages we’re sending, like it’s time for some new messages. And then the pregnant person, like I talked about on a previous episode, I did not have the pregnant body that I thought I would have as a pregnant person. And it feels really triggering to see like a Halloween costume of the pregnant body, like I thought I might have, like for anyone to kind of dress up as. There’s just, there’s my soapbox messaging for the day on Spirit Halloween and really outdated costumes.

Julie: Mm. Yeah, yeah, like dressing up to be funny as a person who like this is like actually someone’s life and many people’s lives like that’s not funny. Yeah, and while we’re burning all these costumes and taking them off the table as an option, let’s just put all of the Disney movie jokes about body size with it, because I’m like, seriously, you have writers that can come up with some other ways to make jokes. And same with costumes. Like, there’s so many different options with, like, make believe that is not going to hurt anyone. And yeah, I hate it. I hate it so much.

Coleen: Do better, Halloween. Do better.

Julie: Do better, Spirit Halloween, and anyone who’s buying those costumes. And there’s gonna be people listening who never thought about it. And I hope it connects some dots, and instead of getting stuck in the shame of like, ugh, yeah, that’s horrible. Okay, now you can do better. Just now that you know and can tell your friends, like, don’t buy those. That’s real dumb. And it’s 2024. We know that people can be all body sizes and have their shit together and to be losing their marbles too. Like you can be any size and going through that. And gosh, it just reinforces so many stereotypes. And there’s so much like dehumanization that happens with what you’re just like those costumes.

Coleen: And not to mention, which I didn’t mention, but how difficult it is to find costumes that fit my body, which is a whole nother episode. But it’s like, man, they only have like straight size costumes at the Halloween store. Like there’s a few plus size costumes, which also I wonder why there are certain costumes that are plus size and not others. So if you’re ever, I don’t know, next time you stroll through,  Party City or wherever you’re shopping for your costumes, maybe it’s Amazon, like start to look at the sizing offered for different costumes that you’re looking for and wonder like, why is this not in a plus size option? Why is this particular costume in a plus size option? Because that is a challenge for me every year and I’ve often had to make my own costumes because I can’t find one that works. So Yeah. Yeah, that’s exactly what I was gonna say. Like people have just made their own. And my gosh, like that’s just a lot of extra work that another burden. man. Well, if Spirit Halloween would get their shit together, this episode would end on a happy instead of this like, You know what, Julie? This is life. It’s okay.

Julie: It is life and it is okay. I know I need a free frame from trying to make everything just so rosy and happy. But I mean, we started with sorting our Halloween candy with our siblings and that was just such a warm fuzzy. I don’t know, I hope we can go back.

Coleen: Yeah. I think the warm fuzzy, if we do want to end with one is like just to keep your eyes peeled on some of these things and ask yourself some questions about, yeah, why. And what’s coming up for you as you see these things. I think that is a great step toward some change, whether internally or externally.

Julie:. Yes, yes. thank you, Coleen. I appreciate your insight and sharing all of these memories and things you’re noticing. Anything before we close up shop for this episode?

Coleen: Enjoy spooky season. Have a wonderful time with doing whatever fall activities you enjoy doing and always respond to us at info@ julieduffydillon.com and let us know what’s coming up for you.

Julie: So there you have it. I hope you enjoyed this very special Halloween conversation with Coleen, all about diet culture and Halloween and candy. I hope you enjoy those stolen Reese cups. I am totally gonna be swiping my kids. Whatever one’s your favorite. I hope you enjoy it. I hope you find a place to be okay with eating it and enjoying it because it’s meant to be fun. It’s meant to taste good And no matter what type of foundation you have with candy, just know that like you have unconditional permission to eat it. Yes, you do. No matter what, like it doesn’t impact your worth. And I do, I hope you enjoy it. All right, so I am gonna have a special bonus episode coming up in just a few days that in case you are having a tough time finding permission to eat this Halloween candy, it is all about can you eat sugar? So check that out and until then, take care.