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Julie Duffy Dillon (00:00)

Hey there, welcome to episode 415 of the Find Your Food Voice podcast where we are unpacking Mel Robbins, the Let Them Theory, and do we all really need to do 11 pushups? Let’s get to it. Welcome, voice finder. I am so glad you’re here today where we are talking about a new theory that has really captivated many people and also led to some very complicated things. So in particular, we are discussing the author Mel Robbins. She has a very popular podcast and many different books, but also has a super duper bestseller called the Let Them Theory and we’ll put links to many things in the show notes. But as a team, we found ourselves captivated and probably a little seduced by some of the messaging that we were getting on the let them theory, which triggered some things that I think were hard, but also really, really important. In the Find Your Food Voice book, I talk a lot about how the diet industry traps us using some really slick kind of messaging And the beginning of a diet, as you can probably remember the last time you started a diet, you didn’t start a diet because you were thinking, oh my gosh, I’m gonna feel horrible. You started a diet because it’s like, oh, I’m gonna feel better soon. This is gonna be the way that I’m gonna be able to get X, Y, Z, and I’m going to be able to attain this by this diet. There’s this hopefulness. And hope is a great feeling. You know, it’s one of my favorites. I like being hopeful. And it can also be a very useful way to know if you’re getting seduced by diet culture again. And that’s what’s happening with this let them theory as well. So I’m going to let us just begin the conversation. So again, you’re going to hear from Coleen Bremner, who is a part of the Find New Food Voice team that helps me with a lot of the managing of things behind the scenes. And she’s also our hype woman extraordinaire. And then also Rachel Popik who’s anti-diet chef that helps me run the PCOS Power Community, the membership there. And so we are unpacking all of this. And while you’re at it, what I encourage you to do, if you wanna be a part of this conversation, if you want more, you can go down two different avenues. One, you can join us in my newsletter, the Find Your Food Voice newsletter. I hosted over on Substack. connecting there, you again, will get more into these conversations about how to protect yourself from getting in the diet trap to begin with. You can also read the Find Your Food Voice book. is available anywhere books are sold. You can get a link to it in the show notes below. And again, stay connected with us so we can continue the conversation. We are gonna take a very quick sponsor break and then we are going to get to the conversation with Coleen, Rachel and I talking about the let them theory.

Julie Duffy Dillon (03:19)

Hey everybody.

Rachel (03:21)

Hi!

Coleen (she/her) (03:21)

Hey, we are back.

Julie Duffy Dillon (03:24)

Yay, I know it’s been too long. It’s been a really long time, yes.

Coleen (she/her) (03:26)

It feels like it’s been a while. So

Rachel (03:28)

It has.

Coleen (she/her) (03:31)

hello to our dear listener listening. We have something very interesting that’s come up in our realm of discussion topics. And I think it was sparked because I mentioned like ordering this book and like being like, it’s so like. It sounds so cool. And like, I don’t know, just the idea, like I’m really into it. And then I was like, asked you about this author and was like, how do you feel about this author? And then we kind of started like a little bit talking about it we were like, wait, we should save this for the podcast. Yes. So yeah. Yeah. It’s Mel Robbins.

Julie Duffy Dillon (04:06)

Yeah, it was getting juicy. It was getting juicy. Yes. So drum roll, who are we talking about?

Coleen (she/her) (04:21)

Yes, so I asked Julie with we were all like on a call together and I was like, how do you feel about Mel Robbins? And we ran and I I rolled my eyes, but like not at Rachel, not knowing who Mel Robbins was, but at like just some of the things that have come up around Mel Robbins. ⁓ So we want to just kind of dive in and talk a little bit about.

Julie Duffy Dillon (04:21)

Yes.

Rachel (04:29)

And I was like, who’s Mel Robbins?

Julie Duffy Dillon (04:32)

So we had the realm.

Yes.

Coleen (she/her) (04:49)

what some of those things are. And really, this is stemming from the let them theory from Mel Robbins, potentially from someone else, which I think Julie will dive into a little bit more. Julie, do you want to talk about that before I like talk about the let them theory or the book which I’m holding right here?

 

Julie Duffy Dillon (05:00)

Mm-hmm. And you even have the book right there. Nice. ⁓ Yeah, so allegedly, I feel like I have to say that there’s allegations of plagiarism and appropriation of a work of art by Cassie Phillips. Allegedly, a couple of years ago, Cassie posted, I think on TikTok or some kind of social media, this poem and it went viral and all the different iterations that are in the let them theory book. One of the controversies because there’s many in this, in the Mel Robbins world, ⁓ especially from the lens that we kind of see life through in the anti diet culture kind of lens. ⁓ There’s a lot of things that are very, very, very similar to this person. So it kind of has a foundation of potentially being problematic from the get-go. But there’s other parts to it that I think I’m excited for us to talk about because again, because we kind of all three come from this similar lens as we’re looking through this type of book and just like Mel Robbins world, yeah.

Coleen (she/her) (06:25)

Yeah, so I think, you know, just basing this solely on the name of the book, right, which is a lot of people have recommended I read this book. ⁓ It’s something that also has come up a lot at work. Like we’re doing a book club around it. So like I was so interested to kind of buy it essentially without knowing all of this other information and by just the name. Like, first of all, this is like, so catchy, like in terms of just marketing, like this book cover draws me in. It’s active. Like I am like, my gosh, it’s for those of you who are not watching this, but listening, it’s a green cover with like yellow dots all over it, kind of going from the inner circle outward. And it says in big, bold letters, the let them theory Mel Robbins. And then like in smaller letters and Sawyer Robbins. So I do want to read that too, but which I did not know. So yes. So the let them theory in theory is it’s essentially this idea that two simple words will set us free from emotional baggage. And those words are let them and

Julie Duffy Dillon (07:24)

That was added later, by the way. Yes, yes, another part of the controversy.

Coleen (she/her) (07:45)

The problem with how we approach life is the power we give to other people. So by using this theory, essentially we can live free from opinions, drama, judgment from others, you know, free of this exhausting cycle of trying to manage everything and everyone around you. the let them theory allegedly puts the power to create a life you love back in your hands. So catchy, right? Like,

Rachel (08:13)

It’s actually so like simple and snazzy and like, ⁓ I just, I’ll just let them.

Coleen (she/her) (08:16)

Yes!

Julie Duffy Dillon (08:20)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Coleen (she/her) (08:20)

Yes. So with that being said, and having, you know, not read the book, like, what are your opinions on that, Rachel?

Rachel (08:33)

So like I said, I had no idea who Mel Robbins was before. Yeah, I mean, I’m also really bad at remembering names. So like I probably had seen her and anyway, I was blissfully unaware. And when you guys started talking about them, I mean, my like feelers went up, right? Like anything that’s that simple, like that’s a marketing ploy. Like that’s my, my like spidey senses go off.

Julie Duffy Dillon (08:38)

Which is, that’s blissful. Just to say that. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel (09:02)

But the vibe I get from her in the very little bit of research and like what I’ve learned in the past few weeks is this feeling of like, well, I can’t control other people, but here are all of these things that I’m going to do to like micromanage and control and regiment my own life. It’s like, I have to control something. And since I’m letting other people do their thing, I have to like, you know, hold to this perfect fit in a box. controlling life, which kind of leads me to the point that a lot of self-help, self-care related stuff is so similar to diet culture in that they both, like both diet culture and like the self-help space profit off of people feeling bad about themselves and believing that they need to change and fix themselves. And then that kind of thinking like when you’re never perfect at that, then you have to try something new and you have to try something new. it’s that those industries, the self-help industry, the diet culture industry, it’s like that mentality is what keeps those systems making millions and millions of dollars and kind of perpetuating themselves.

Julie Duffy Dillon (10:21)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had ⁓ heard first this let them theory by listening to Mel Robbins being interviewed on some podcast. I don’t remember which one, but I listened to it at the right time for me when I was like in the throes of like some kind of anxiety spiral. They happen. There are many of them. And the other thing that I was besides like absorbing the theory and listening to how Mel Robbins was talking about it. And I did feel like, this is a really good fit for me, especially right now. this was when the book was, Your Food Voice book was about ready to be released. And so there was some anxiety, right? And so hearing the theory, was really, again, well timed. And Mel Robbins was releasing a book. And so I can I can’t like not also observe things like people releasing a book and a self-help theory that I could benefit from without also looking at the marketing of the book because I’m also marketing a book. So there was this duality, this like dual experience of like feeling calmed by the let them theory, but then at the same time experiencing a ton of like comparitis because she had over like a hundred thousand pre-orders I heard. And that’s why the New York Times bestseller list, like she’s at the top of it or near the top or something like that for many, many weeks. Find Your Food Voice is a wonderful book. Many people are reading it, many people pre-ordered it, but it wasn’t 100,000. So, you know, and what I noticed myself doing and I was like, Julie, you’re doing it. Because I got, I was feeling calmed and the anxiety, but then I had anxiety increasing from the caperitis. Like I was getting swept up into, need to hustle, I need to grind. And it reminded me, know, that Mel Robbins and I do not lead our lives in the same way. And there’s many different people in the world, many different types of way of leading your life. But ⁓ I’ve never felt aligned with like bro marketing, you know, like get up at 5am calling, know you’re an early riser, not me.

Julie Duffy Dillon (12:48)

Rachel, I know you are early rising because of just duties right now. Yeah. But I am not someone who feels good getting up early nor staying up late. I am like a bear. I like to sleep and yeah, the hustle, the grind, it makes me have migraines and stuff like that. it clicks, something clicked in where I was like, okay, wait, wait, wait. So if I’m feeling so relieved with this theory, but yet this person has this like hustle and grind as a part of how they are marketing things, what else is going on? And as I started to dig deeper and I found this conspiracy theory, conspiracy theory is probably not even the right word, these allegations of someone having this let them theory already. Yeah, it made me feel a little less sparkly and wonderful with the theory itself. So, that in itself does remind me of the diet industry, diet culture, right? Like that hopefulness, but then you just like peel the next layer and it’s like, it’s the same old shit. but the other side of this too is before we, as a team, before we talked about no Robbins, it was actually like a few days before I was interviewed ⁓ by a reporter for Vox on this viral video that had come out where Mel Robbins was interviewing, I can’t remember the person’s credentials. I think this person is an exercise physiologist or maybe a doctor of some sort. I can’t remember. I probably should have researched this better before talking about it, but we’ll put a link to it in the show notes. But anyway, this person said that every woman, and they’re specifically talking about midlife and menopause, but every woman should be able to do 11 pushups. And it does.

Rachel (14:45)

and like 11 pushups not on your knees, not as twisted, like.

Julie Duffy Dillon (14:48)

not on your knees, full pushups should and nothing should stop you. Same stuff. You need to get up at 5 a.m. You need to work harder. You need to like, if you don’t have any time, then you do it during your lunch hour. you find a way to make it work. And I was like, this is the same old stuff, right? And it reminded me a lot of Andrew Huberman, who another podcaster who I feel like is like the male version of Mel Robbins. Rachel, I know if you’ve seen him, but. Okay, okay. And I’m calling, have you heard of Andrew Huberman?

Rachel (15:21)

I have heard of him.

Coleen (she/her) (15:26)

What’s hilarious is I haven’t.

Julie Duffy Dillon (15:29)

I love it. That’s so good.

Coleen (she/her) (15:32)

So I’ll have to do a little bit of digging.

Julie Duffy Dillon (15:34)

I mean, it’s similar to Mel Robbins and any kind of podcaster who has really good sticky marketing. And I remember listening to someone on Andrew Huberman’s podcast, like I was looking for that person being interviewed and that’s how I stumbled upon his podcast. And he is some Ivy league professor who isn’t like neuroscientist, but also is super buff.

Coleen (she/her) (16:04)

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Julie Duffy Dillon (16:04)

you know, one of those types. And so there’s some really cool interviews, but also like a lot of problematic stuff. And the, I don’t know if you all mind, but I was hoping we could switch even to like the concept of like the physical strength that Mel Robbins is pushing us to say we all should be doing or suggesting that we all should be able to do. And in that box interview, the thing that I mentioned was It just seems like the fitness space, especially like as we’ve gotten used to like, let’s enjoy movement, like more of a body positive or weight inclusive accessibility kind of space of like, do what feels enjoyable and pleasurable for your body and do it for strength and ⁓ combining those kinds of things. It seems like in the exercise space right now, we’re moving back decades to get up even earlier, no pain, no gain, hustle and grind. Again, the vibes that I get from like the Mel Robbins space, the Andrew Huberman space, tons and tons of bro marketing. Yeah, what do y’all think?

Coleen (she/her) (17:17)

Rachel, do you wanna start?

Rachel (17:18)

Sure. I mean, I think it all, I was refreshing my Andrew Huberman, knowledge and I, ⁓ some like fun tidbits just that he, he’s a, doesn’t believe in sunscreen. He doesn’t believe in fluoride. He does similar to feel like I’m waiting for Mel Robbins. This is might be a little too judgmental, like to launch her own line of some sort of supplements, right? Like he’s got a It’s all, it’s all the same and like, similar to diet culture. It’s all just is the same shit repackaged, remarketed, you know, with a new flashy cover on it. But really when you like dig down to the root of it, it’s that like grind, like get up, work hard, you know, that mentality that exists because it makes us productive members of a capitalistic society. Like it all kind of goes back to that same, like, you gotta be like strong and effective and maximize your day so you can make the capitalist system money.

Julie Duffy Dillon (18:30)

which is really like the let them theory too. That’s what I see so much of that as well. Instead of like emotional freedom and peace, it’s more so you can get your shit done.

Rachel (18:32)

Right, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And with someone like Mel Robbins, chances are, like she has a whole team of people behind her. Like she is affluent. She probably has, you know, housekeepers and publicists and assistants and all of these people who help manage her life in a way that she is able to do those things that you and I are just expected to fit in on top of taking care of our children and our families and like self care and all of those things. ⁓ Yeah, it just, it’s all icky. It’s all icky.

Coleen (she/her) (19:22)

I really struggled when I watched this video, not just with the 11 push-up part, but with everything kind of precursing that as well. It wasn’t just, I feel like my problem starts to get into if someone is prescribing a number or an amount to anything, really. I feel like this is kind of a blanket statement, but it kind of fits. If someone tells me you need to do, I can’t remember the exact numbers, like 45 minutes of walking, a certain number of times a day, and then also like a certain amount of strength training, and it should be hard and difficult and be almost, I think they may have even used the word painful. That is where I really come up against like that icky feeling for me. trust kind of my own.

Julie Duffy Dillon (19:53)

10,000 steps, yeah.

Coleen (she/her) (20:15)

work that I’ve done in this space to be like, okay, why is that triggering that for me? And it’s because there is no mention of listening to your own body. There is no mention of figuring out that type of movement that works for you because everyone is not going to be able to walk 45 minutes for X number of days. That’s just not a reality for some people. And that should be accepted in our society and isn’t accepted. So it’s kind of also this ableism side of things that isn’t really maybe outwardly talked about or discussed, but then still puts this undue pressure on, you know, people who aren’t maybe able to do those types of exercises. So really like making that blanket statement of like, no, you should be able to do 11 pushups. on your hands, know, not on your knees. Like that is not going to be possible for everybody. And that’s okay. Like I think what the work that we do in this space is trying to encourage folks to really truly listen to what is the right choice for them to make. And yeah, I feel like that’s kind of, that was my gut reaction anyway to this video.

Julie Duffy Dillon (21:17)

Yeah. The thing that I think is important to name too, is this particular person recommending the 11 pushups was someone who has expertise in aging and helping people post menopause. And I feel really grateful. One of my really good friends and my mentor, her name is Deb Benfield and she’s a dietitian who specializes in discussing body liberation in the aging space. And she’s actually ⁓ writing a book. It’s in pre-order. I’ll put the link into the pre-order in the show notes. ⁓ I think it’s called unapologetic aging. But there’s so much of the fear. ⁓ Again, thinking of it from a lens of like capitalism, there’s this fear of we’re going to lose our ability eventually as we age. So we would no longer will be productive members of society. So we will be a burden and we need to avoid that at all costs. And here is the way to do it. Here’s your magic number. Here’s your magic ticket to be able to not be a burden. And I, again, I feel so grateful that I have a mentor in my life who helps me to appreciate my own anti-aging kind of, and when I say anti-aging, I don’t mean skin cream. mean like my ageist kind of belief and stuff like that. And a lot of it connected to ableism. And there’s so much of this ⁓ hardcore gym workout kind of culture that is at a 50 year old woman that I am getting pressure to be able to do. And I appreciate like wanting to preserve bone mass and maybe some muscle mass. So, I will have energy and vitality and things like that. But I also know like restricting and trying to avoid weight gain is the thing that’s going to ruin that the most. know, so yeah, pushing to this like random number and probably tearing up my muscles in the process because of that ⁓ is not something that’s going to be really helping what they’re what they’re kind of like the carrot they’re dangling. And at the same time, it’s it’s promoting this belief that I can’t I should do everything I can to not be a burden. And ⁓ we’re all gonna die, right? None of us are getting out here alive and we’re gonna need help. And that doesn’t mean a failure, that just means, you know, we’re human again. you know, talking through all of this, I’m so glad that we had a chance to selfishly because I’m like, damn Mel Robbins, like, I’m thinking about the beginning of when I heard this theory there was this kind of seductive side to it where, I felt a sense of ease. Like there was some positive I got from it. And yet as you like peel back the layers, it’s like, ⁓ shit. It’s over promising and under delivering again, which is, know, in the, your food voice book, I talk about the diet trap and like that’s the recipe for the whole to get in the whole thing. So we’re back.

Rachel (24:58)

Yeah. I also, I think that with the video about the 11 pushups and so many other kind of, think in this, in the worlds that we’re in where social media is like where so many people consume so much information. So things are, it’s even more important for things to be like short and pithy and like, are five things that you can do to perfect your life and 11 pushups and these like short things. I was watching A TikTok, see, hi, two. ⁓ From Laura Gerard, who’s like a weight neutral ⁓ fitness instructor, ⁓ who I adore. And she was saying, she was talking about the difference between, I don’t even remember, two different movements. And she was explaining like, this is why you would do this movement versus this movement. And she was saying how so often fitness instructors don’t tell you the why behind.

Julie Duffy Dillon (25:26)

That was great. ⁓

Rachel (25:54)

you know, why you’re doing a squat versus a lunge. Like these are the different muscles you’re, you’re working and like functionally, this is why both of them are important in different ways. But it’s back to that, like, well, why do we all need to do 11 pushups? Like what, and really interrogating and thinking through, if you see something online, that’s like, you know, here are the five things that’ll change your life or this thing you have to do X many amount of times, really questioning like, and thinking, well, why is that? And why is this person not telling me the why? Because oftentimes there isn’t one, that’s like a one size fits all to Coleen’s point. Like everyone needs different things and everyone has different abilities and that’s okay. really, so really just kind of as you’re consuming information, asking that question. Well, like, why is that? Why is this important?

Julie Duffy Dillon (26:46)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I would say I would add on to that too is as a clinician trained in the health space through a medical model, I can remember learning how to make recommendations. And there were a lot of assumptions that I was told to make. One is tell people to eat less than you really need them to because we can’t trust people to actually cut out things. Tell people to move more because they’re only gonna get halfway. So you may as well raise the bar higher so then they’ll get a little higher. It’s basically, yeah, like assuming that we can’t trust people to eat in a way that is in any way like health promoting, like it’s only gonna be pleasurable.

Julie Duffy Dillon (27:42)

And so we need to deny all the pleasure basically, because they’re gonna take way more than they need, which again, is like, comes from such horrible roots. ⁓ we know better, ⁓ we need to control, we need to limit, we need to use fear. Fear was a big thing that I was instructed to use to help people make ⁓ behavior change. And yeah, it definitely came through in this video for me. Yeah.

Coleen (she/her) (27:45)

Hmm. I think that’s such a great segue into what this is really telling us about diet trends, right? Like, Rachel, you mentioned earlier that it feels like it’s just kind of recycled. Did you have more to add to that?

Rachel (28:28)

I think just that like..I think interrogating the why I think kind of helps me to break those things down. But it just feels like everything old is new again. It’s the same few things that have different names and different faces. But when you strip it all down, it’s at its core still about controlling our bodies, keeping us suppressed, keeping us focused on like ourselves and how we fix ourselves, improve ourselves so that we’re productive members of a capitalist society so that we’re so focused on ourselves. We don’t have time to like examine the systems around us and too busy to like organize or to care for our communities or do things that are really generative and healthy for ourselves. It’s all about fixing ourselves, controlling ourselves. Yeah.

Coleen (she/her) (29:32)

Yeah, I feel like it’s this phrasing that I hear all the time around diet culture. It feels the very same to me with this. It’s like, think of it as an investment in yourself. It’s like the same type of marketing we hear write for like pyramid schemes or, you know, someone slips into your DMs and is like, we haven’t talked since high school, but I’m doing this amazing new thing. like really, yes, MLM, MLM.

Rachel (29:56)

And you’re like, I’m alarm, I’m alarm.

Coleen (she/her) (30:01)

⁓ so it just feels like a little bit of that packaged in this as well. Like the investment in myself, like just it’s again, it’s that catchy, like, well, this is really for you. And like, this is really like going to help you in the long run. So like, think of it as like an investment in you. And, you know, I think we’ll get into this a little bit down the line, but like really trying to think differently about.

Coleen (she/her) (30:30)

what that investment looks like if you want to use those terms. ⁓ Julie, do you want to add to that?

Julie Duffy Dillon (30:37)

Yeah, cosigned to all of those. And the thing that I get from specifically that video is, especially a woman in midlife, officially right in the middle, is this is just another way to exclude people. Another way to ⁓ not fit in is if you’re not strong enough,

Julie Duffy Dillon (31:04)

And it also, again, like what is old is new again, like Rachel, like you said, because what I remember about 1990s diet culture was everyone was really working on being thin, but then by the time we got to Y2K, it was like thin and muscular. And that’s what I was getting from the 11 pushups is like, you need to be thin, don’t gain weight, and you need to be strong. So.

Rachel (31:32)

not too strong and not look too muscular as a woman. Right, like you don’t wanna have broad shoulders, you wanna be muscular.

Julie Duffy Dillon (31:35)

huh. I don’t want be too bulky.

Yeah.

Yeah, because isn’t there like some offensive term that I’m not going to use right now about our backs being a big size. It’s because of my Gen Z household members have taught me this one. Coleen, do you know what I’m talking about? I’m not going to say it then. I don’t want to introduce a new term. I’ll let you all know after we stop recording if you want to know what it is. But yeah, like I think it’s just another

Coleen (she/her) (31:54)

Hmm. I have no idea. Okay. I have no idea.

Julie Duffy Dillon (32:08)

way to exclude folks. like you all were saying, it’s another way to push people, push things on the individual to keep us from staying connected, to keep us out of community and promote this experience where we’re further being ⁓ swept off our feet and kept out of the loop. Yeah.

Coleen (she/her) (32:27)

Yeah. So Julie, you write about this in Find Your Food and Voice, but can you walk us through how we flip the script on things like this?

Julie Duffy Dillon (32:37)

So let me introduce the term a little bit, or the phrase rather, flip the script. So the script, you know, that is in the book, what the term I use instead of just diet, because I think from my experience working with clients, some people are recovering from an eating disorder. Some people have been chronically dieting, but then also some people have this like intergenerational.

Julie Duffy Dillon (33:03)

experience where they have learned certain food rules just from their family, ⁓ whether it’s just to help their family to stay safe or for many different reasons. So even calling some things a diet didn’t fit. what I also think is that the diet industry basically creates this culture where we download a lot of food rules and it’s in the form of these scripts, you know, like you should do this, you should do that, don’t eat after seven, know, like all the different rules that we have. And something that we can do is flip that script, you know, like, is there a way to either take away its power, discredit it, and decide what we’re going to do with it? And what that may mean is there may be parts of a certain suggestion with food or exercise that we want to hold on to that we like. Like there may be parts of the let them theory that I like, but not all of it, or at least really exposing all the different parts of its foundation. And so I wanted to take this opportunity to do that with this let them theory with, yeah, with, or even the Levin pushups, know, what can we do to, yeah, to flip it?

Coleen (she/her) (34:30)

Yeah, I feel like with this theory in particular, and in just looking at, you know, kind of how you talked about it earlier, Julia, of just feeling like, this could work for me, but also recognizing it maybe foundationally isn’t built on ⁓ something that is that we’re aligned with when we read it. Or I think there is a place for things like for you to, you know, look at different maybe it’s media, maybe it’s books and take what you need from it too. Like I think there’s opportunity to do that. So I’m not saying like, do not read this book. Maybe read it. Maybe determine for yourself like what works for you and what doesn’t. ⁓ That’s my plan. And when I think about, know, I’m in particular with movement and kind of what I, the way I want to think about movement in relation to this, like let them theory is,

Coleen (she/her) (35:29)

Like, I wanna think about how I can move my body to play with and show up for my child. Not out of the lens of pain, but out of this lens of like love and enjoyment and adventure. And like, I wanna find ways to play with her at the park or in our house that make us both feel happy and empowered to move our bodies because it’s fun for us. ⁓ I really think about the way that she will grow up thinking about the way she moves her body and the way that she interacts with food. And I want her to just have a completely different experience, at least at home, ⁓ given that so many things are out of our control outside of these four walls. But that’s how I want to rewrite this or flip the script. I really want the narrative to look different. ⁓ What about you, Rachel?

Rachel (36:24)

I just want to say that’s so powerful and that’s going to make such an impact for your child. having your relationship as a healthy one modeled around food and movement makes me so happy to know that your child’s growing up that way. But I think when it comes to the let them theory, I take from it that boundaries, you talk about them a lot are important and it’s important to know what your boundaries are and to know how to protect your piece. And so take that from the book and, and work on your boundaries. Think about what you need to do to make sure that your space is protected. ⁓ when it comes to the, the movement and the pushups, think what I said earlier about the, why, like, why are you doing those movements? That has been. Pivotable pivotal words hard that has been foundational for me in kind of rewriting my experience with movement from being something that like I did to punish myself and was regimented to learning why certain movements are helpful. My job is very physical. I’m constantly moving around the kitchen. I’m constantly lifting things. And so it’s important for me to be able to do my job to have a certain amount of strength. so like learning about different strength movements that I can do and weightlifting I can do that are helpful for me doing my job, which I love, and to be able to live the life I want, gardening and hiking and all of those things. Having that as the why for doing the movements instead of just because society tells me I have to be this way or because I have to look a certain way, flipping that script has been huge.

Julie Duffy Dillon (38:23)

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I love that. Something that I am thinking about with this and a big part of like flipping the script is finding ways to protect ourselves so we don’t get seduced back into diet culture. We don’t get sucked back in because that distracts us from our life, from our community, from things we love the most. And and for many folks also. protects eating disorder recovery. So just that feeling of being seduced by the let them theory, like feeling that kind of buzzy, I was like, oh, there it was. So whenever you feel that kind of buzzy seduction, unless it’s this like hot person you’re talking to and you’re available for that. Outside of that, yeah, if there’s any concept even maybe it has nothing to do with food, like this let them theory. When you feel that seduction before you let yourself like fall into it to take a step back and be like, okay, something’s happening. Because really what’s happening is for, I know for me, especially after talking to you all about this, like I was being marketed to and it happened, you know? And of course, Mel Robbins, that’s like her big area of expertise is marketing. And so part of flipping the script is when you know you’re getting seduced, you have more of your power, you know, when you know that’s what’s happening, instead of just getting swept off your feet. And ⁓ I don’t know, like I could see how I could have like bought the book and then bought a ⁓ an expensive membership and, you know, done all the things without really realizing, gosh, I just got, I just got seduced. Yeah.

Rachel (40:19)

Yeah. And I think, I think, you know, looking at the three of us, we’ve all been on our like, you know, rejecting diet culture journeys for quite a long time. And still we can also get seduced. Like it’s still happens. So if you do get seduced by a diet or, or something like the let them theory, like don’t beat yourself up over it. You know, like it’s.

Julie Duffy Dillon (40:43)

No, no, being human.

Rachel (40:45)

It’s being human, still happens. Marketing, Coleen knows, is a brilliant way to get us to do things and it works.

Julie Duffy Dillon (40:48)

Mm-hmm. Totally, totally.

Coleen (she/her) (40:59)

So I think given our conversation, it would be a really great practice to tuck into chips and dip. Julie, do you want to chat a little bit about what that means? And we obviously won’t be eating chips and dip because that ASMR is not approved this morning. But I kind of do want chips and dip now.

Rachel (41:22)

I’m really missing it.

Julie Duffy Dillon (41:26)

Yes, maybe that’s what we can throw in there. Well, you know what, ⁓ Chips and Dip is a new segment that I want to see, just play around with, see what happens. But yeah, chips are a concept from the Find Your Food Voice book. It stands for check in props. And in chapter five, which is the pivot chapter, I talk about helping yourself go from this kind of chaotic eating experience

Julie Duffy Dillon (41:54)

And if you’ve been wanting to do intuitive eating, but felt like you couldn’t make the leap over chips is the way to pivot. It’s something I would teach clients. ⁓ And it’s this like, it’s a self care type of tool that you can experiment with that uses the clock to help you to reconnect your mind and body and practice. Like we need a lot of practice for self-compassion as you’re repairing your relationship with food. And part of this is asking a series of questions again to help you to get grounded basically. And so the chips and dip segment, which chips and dip is a phrase of course that Coleen you came up with, like chips and dip, I can see this. And I was like, I love that, especially because as a dietitian we love cheesy food puns. And so chips and dip this segment when we meet as a team is a time where we can kind of conclude the podcast and share ways that we are adding more grounding or mindfulness or self-compassion, all the things that we’re trying to practice when we’re doing the check-in props.

Coleen (she/her) (43:04)

Amazing. I love it. And I do think at some point we should do some chips and dip ASMR. Like, I don’t know. Maybe you listener might think that that isn’t enjoyable, but I feel like I… ⁓ see, sometimes I like it, but it depends. Like, I don’t know if crunching chips would be the right choice for us. Yeah, so to talk a little bit more about that, I…

Julie Duffy Dillon (43:11)

Ha! I am like the anti-ASMR, but my children love it. ⁓ No, I’m gonna always know.

Rachel (43:22)

Yeah, it depends on the mood.

Coleen (she/her) (43:34)

have been getting up with, you know, just opening my eyes and not relying on my alarm to get up out of bed first thing in the morning, which has been really nice. I still set an alarm because I have anxiety and I’m afraid that I will sleep forever, which note to self has never actually happened. that anxiety is unfounded. I always wake up really early, but ⁓ something about just not waking up with an alarm and taking just a moment to get myself organized without that like, I don’t know, aggressive alarm, like helps me feel ready to tackle the day. I also like to make my bed first thing. It just helps me feel grounded. I don’t feel like you need to make your bed or like it’s just something that I like when I go into my bedroom, you if I’m dropping something off or getting something, I just like to look at my bed made and know that like it’s calling my name in the evening and it’s ready for me. So it just feels good for me. So that’s my chips and dip for today.

Rachel (44:39)

I’m also so impressed that you can wake up without an alarm.

Julie Duffy Dillon (44:42)

I know, totally.

Rachel (44:46)

For me, something that has been really helpful, especially as the weather has gotten warmer, though it’s still very, very rainy where I am, ⁓ prioritizing spending time outside, like first thing in the morning. ⁓ You know, like I come downstairs, I like make my smoothie, and then I go just like stand on my deck and have the fresh air be around me, ideally with sun but. that we haven’t seen in weeks here, but I find that particularly grounding. I like to do it without any socks or shoes on. So like my feet are literally on the ground, ⁓ but that has been a really wonderful practice for me.

Julie Duffy Dillon (45:32)

love this because the three of us are very different. But yet what I’m hearing from the two of you and also for myself too, like we all like practicing some kind of centering activity when we start the day. And it feels very, whenever I do it, it feels very luxurious. And it’s really kind of funny that that’s luxurious, but like, it does it feels really energizing for me. So and Coleen when you’re talking about getting up without an alarm, I am not a morning person. But one thing that I love ⁓ is when it starts to be closer to spring, that the sun is starting to come in my window in the morning. And I love that. And so it’s like, yeah, around six or 6.30, it’ll start to happen. And when that happens, I do start to slowly wake up before my alarm at seven. And I love it. It’s my favorite thing.

Julie Duffy Dillon (46:31)

It’s one of my favorite things about having my own bed and no partner in it most days because I can do that. I appreciate most people like to have things dark. I love having the sun wake me up. But that wasn’t the chips and dip I was wanting to share. I ⁓ don’t know what your basic astrology is, but I am a very grounded person in my astrology, meaning like my sun, moon and rising are all earth signs. And so I need grounded practice or I feel like so like unhinged and like, and the Chani app. Do y’all know the Chani app? What’s Chani’s, is Chani her first name or last name? ⁓ I think Chani.

Julie Duffy Dillon (47:25)

Nichols? Yeah, so it’s her first name. There you go. I’m remembering. I think it’s the only app I pay for. No, I pay for a meditation app too, and Duolingo. But like the Chani app is this astrology app that also has a social justice side to it, like her way of doing astrology I’ve always really loved. But there is a self-growth course that they just added, and it’s just this like five to 10 minute grounding kind of exercise. And I have been loving it. I needed it. There’s something about this spring in particular, I can feel my anxiety is like, pulling some old shit that I’m like, Really? Are we doing this again? So yeah, I’ve needed my chips and dip. That’s what I’ve been doing lately. And I love it. I have felt more grounded because of it. Oh, but this has been so lovely, y’all. I’m so glad we finally had a chance to chat and

Rachel (48:22)

Bye!

Julie Duffy Dillon (48:24)

chat about, let them. So let them or not let them, you do what you want.

Coleen (she/her) (48:27)

Yes.

Rachel (48:29)

Yeah.

Coleen (she/her) (48:30)

That is the question.

Rachel (48:30)

Thanks for teaching me about Mel Robbins.

Julie Duffy Dillon (48:32)

Yeah, yes. Don’t you feel so much better now that you know?

Rachel (48:37)

 mean, I definitely feel way more informed.

Julie Duffy Dillon (48:41)

Yeah, yes, yes. Well, thank you, team. I appreciate it. I look forward to next time we chat. Bye.

Rachel (48:46)

A day everyone.

Julie Duffy Dillon (48:51)

So there you have it. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Rachel, Coleen and I unpacking the let them theory and the 11 pushups to buckle. If you enjoyed some of the tools that we discussed in this episode, check out the find your food voice book. That’s where I teach many of them and also join my sub stack, which is where I am hosting my newsletter, where I am diving deeper into many of these topics. I also hope you can join me on the next episode of the Find Your Food Voice podcast. I’m going to be interviewing Becca King, who is a dietitian specializing in non-diet ways of managing ADHD. And we’re gonna talk about in particular ADHD alongside PCOS. So whether you have PCOS, ADHD, or the mother load of ADHD and PCOS together, we know that you’re gonna get a lot out of the conversation. until then. Have a great week and I can’t wait to catch up with you next time. Bye for now.