Julie Duffy Dillon (00:00)

Hey there, welcome to episode 431 of the Find Your Food Voice podcast. Today, my team and I are breaking down that Mike Tyson Super Bowl ad. Let’s get to it.

Hey there, I am Julie Duffy Dillon, your host and registered dietitian Today, like I mentioned, we are talking about the Mike Tyson Super Bowl ad that was designed and produced or funded by the US government. And it really impacted the three of us. And so we wanna share with you.

some of the things that we were experiencing, some insight and where we wanna go from here. We originally had a different topic in mind. We are actually already planning for the last, I think three or four months to talk about how body positivity has lost its kind of trendiness in our culture and where we are finding spaces where we can feel more body neutrality. And then this Super Bowl ad happens and we’re like, my gosh, this is just such

a poignant moment that is really sharing how our culture has flipped a switch and gone back to more of a weight focus and how that is impacting us, especially if you had moments where you were experiencing more peace and ease with body acceptance and maybe it was helping you recover from your eating disorder.

life just likes to provide opportunities and the Super Bowl ads certainly did. So before we get to this conversation with Rachel and Coleen I want to let you know just a few housekeeping things. Like I mentioned in the last few episodes, the Find Your Food Voice podcast is coming to the end. This is our last season and we have just a few more episodes and we would love your voice to be a part of the last episode.

Part of why the Find Your Food Voice ⁓ podcast has been around for 10 years is because it has included letters from listeners like you. And I would love a chance to just capture the stories about how sharing your personal experiences has collectively helped us with our relationship with food.

So what we’re thinking is sending a voice note and emailing it to us or sending us an email about how the show has impacted you, maybe something you’ve learned. And we are just so excited to be able to kind of collect these responses and then share them in the last episode. So you can share it at info at JulieDillonRD.com And as we are sunsetting this podcast, I would love to stay connected with you.

And the way to do that is to join me over on Substack. There I am continuing to write and speak on topics in particular ⁓ on PCOS and insulin resistance. So you can get to that Substack, which is the name of the show. Findyourfoodvoice.substack.com and subscribe. That way you can stay connected to whatever comes next because part of ending the show is gonna allow space for what’s next. Not really sure what it is yet, but it’s gonna allow space for that. All right.

Enough of all that, we’re gonna take a very quick sponsor break and then get to the conversation with Rachel and Coleen.

Coleen (she/her) (03:20)

Okay, hey friends, how’s it going? It’s so great to see you. I’m looking at Rachel and Julie, but also to be in your ear holes,

Rachel Popik (03:22)

Thank you.

Julie Duffy Dillon (03:23)

Hi.

Coleen (she/her) (03:32)

We, you’re welcome for that. ⁓ Yeah, I’m in a silly mood today, so you’re welcome. Okay, so I texted you all this. I was just like,

Julie Duffy Dillon (03:32)

I’ve never heard them called ear holes, by the way. Thanks. Yes.

Okay.

Coleen (she/her) (03:46)

a gog aghast appalled when I watched because let’s be real I only watched the Super Bowl halftime show I didn’t really watch the game but of course what I did see after the incredible Benito Bowl was ⁓ this ad and if you do know or don’t know what I’m talking about we’re about to break it down for you but it was this

Julie Duffy Dillon (03:58)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Coleen (she/her) (04:14)

Mike Tyson, ma ha ad. And I, I had to like take 24 hours to process before I even texted Rachel and Julie because I saw it live and I was like, I can’t even text them right now. Like I was, you should have seen my face when I was watching it. So I want to hear everyone’s reactions, hot takes. ⁓ and then I can dive into my own, but Rachel, do you want to start?

Julie Duffy Dillon (04:27)

Hmm.

Rachel Popik (04:41)

Sure. So, I guess for those of you who haven’t seen it and don’t want to watch it because, you know, unless you want to be enraged and angry and triggered, maybe don’t watch it. It essentially was Mike Tyson talking about how obesity, you know, was disgusting. was using a lot of like really inflammatory language around

Coleen (she/her) (04:50)

Yeah, trigger warning for sure.

Julie Duffy Dillon (04:52)

I know,

yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Rachel Popik (05:10)

the problems of being fat and Americans being fat and we need to like, you know, move to clean eating kind of was the vibe of the commercial. So yes, yes, yeah. So I also didn’t watch, I watched the halftime show and immediately turned it off after. So like I didn’t see any commercials, so I missed the commercial. So when Coleen texted it, that was like my first.

Julie Duffy Dillon (05:20)

Yeah, it was against ultra processed foods, which is a big maha like thing. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Rachel Popik (05:40)

I’m learning and seeing about this. And then obviously I saw a lot of outrage on the internet afterwards. But yeah, I mean, was disgusted. I was angry. was frustrated at like, once again, like completely missing the point of like, if we want people to have the ability to become healthier, we don’t need clean eating and like,

gross celebrity redemption arcs like Mike Tyson talking about eating a fucking apple and talking about avoiding ultra-processed foods. We need affordable food. We need the time to eat and prepare food. We need equitable, accessible healthcare. We need the shaming and the blaming of individual food choices.

Julie Duffy Dillon (06:19)

Yeah, yeah.

Rachel Popik (06:35)

once again, this is not a new thing, but like it doesn’t do anything other than fueling stigma and like causing eating disorders. It just ignores like the real issues like poverty, food insecurity, know, health access, stress, discrimination, like all of these things, the social determinants of health, all of these things that truly could make a difference in the day to day lives and health of Americans.

Julie Duffy Dillon (06:37)

It’s not new.

Mm-hmm.

Rachel Popik (07:05)

⁓ and it isn’t being shamed or told to like, just stop eating ultra processed foods because also what is a processed food? Like, you know, a harvested and like, like a baby carrot is a processed food.

Julie Duffy Dillon (07:10)

Mm-hmm.

Which he ate in the commercial was a carrot. Carrot and apples. Yeah.

Rachel Popik (07:25)

yeah. So that was, bullshit.

Julie Duffy Dillon (07:28)

Yeah, yeah, totally agree.

⁓ When I got your text, I had heard about this commercial, but I hadn’t watched it. I had rewound ⁓ Bad Bunny Show, because I watched it. then as I was watching it the first time, I’m like, there’s so much symbolism in here, but I don’t want to think about the symbolism. I just want to enjoy the show. And then I rewound it so I could be like, ⁓ colonization and the real wedding. my gosh, all the love. It was just so beautiful.

Coleen (she/her) (07:47)

Mm-hmm.

Yep. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Julie Duffy Dillon (08:00)

And what a dichotomy to have this. Because was this commercial like right after the halftime show or was it like a couple after? mean, it was like pretty soon after the halftime show. Yeah, so I had missed it and I had heard also like Rachel, had like heard some discourse and I was feeling so good after watching the halftime show that I was like, I wanna sit in this good.

Coleen (she/her) (08:11)

Yes. Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (08:28)

nice feeling right now and I’m going to watch it tomorrow. So ⁓ when I watched it, it was a flashback for me to back to 2012. And I don’t know where you all were 15 years ago, but we didn’t know each other yet. And you may have been like in high school. I don’t know. OK.

Coleen (she/her) (08:48)

I I was in college.

Rachel Popik (08:49)

not quite

miserable, but I was in a very different space than I am now.

Julie Duffy Dillon (08:55)

So

I don’t know if you remember it, but like working, cause I mean, that was a place where I was seeing clients one-on-one. I had been working in the intuitive eating non-diet space for about 10 years and it wasn’t trendy yet. Intuitive eating was not trendy at all. And the war on O word was like still like pumping and in 2011 and 2012,

the city of Atlanta had this whole campaign of black and white, very ⁓ artistic type of black and white photos of children in higher weight bodies. And they had very like, shamy kind of blaming language. And it was meant to motivate someone, especially a parent to change how they are feeding their child. And so when I watched this commercial, I was like,

I’ve been here before. This feels the same to me. ⁓ And it’s very much like individualistic and shame blame. There also is lots and lots of like man up, know, ⁓ be a man. We’re so weak because we’re in these higher weight bodies, even though we’re the most powerful ⁓ country in the world, which at the same time, like Bad Bunny was just singing about machismo ⁓

Coleen (she/her) (10:08)

Mm-hmm.

Julie Duffy Dillon (10:23)

Wow, it’s like amazing to see in real time how this shit is still so pervasive. ⁓ And you know, back in the 2011, 2012 time, ultra processed food was talked about, but it wasn’t like it is now. ⁓ And it was more on just like weight, know, weight and probably sugar, you know, were the things that were shamed.

Coleen (she/her) (10:50)

You

Julie Duffy Dillon (10:50)

But

yet really it’s the same kind of thing. it’s, I wish we could as a whole, you know, as a collective unconscious, we can appreciate how easy it is to reach for fear tactics and shame and blame, but researchers have shown us over and over and over again that they don’t work. ⁓ And also if we’re worried about collective health, like you were saying, Rachel, like access, like can we have

drinkable water everywhere in the United States of America. I mean, that would be a great start. ⁓ I think that ⁓ it’s missing the point, know? Coleen, I’m dying to hear like what you were going through though in the moment. Would you be willing to share?

Rachel Popik (11:21)

Yeah.

Coleen (she/her) (11:37)

Yes. ⁓ you should have seen my face because I was literally, I mean, I guess you post this on YouTube, right? Julie, like our recording. So you can see my face, but I was like,

Julie Duffy Dillon (11:48)

Yeah.

Coleen (she/her) (11:49)

and I kept looking at Max and like looking back at the TV and looking at Max and he was like, what’s happening? And I was like, I don’t know. I’m like, I was like, at first when it started, you know, you hear commercials that are like, one in three Americans like have diet and I was like, okay, easy. This is gonna be like in my mind. I was like, this is gonna be like for like diabetes medication or GLP one. Like I was like,

Julie Duffy Dillon (12:06)

Yeah.

Yeah, there were so many GLP ones, yeah.

Coleen (she/her) (12:15)

Okay, clocked it. I was

like, on to the next. What’s the next? Like, what’s the next commercial? And then it kept going. And I was like, my face just like, I have no chill. Like my face has no chill. It’s very expressive. So I just was like, getting further and further away from the TV and further into the couch. And also I was at the time stuffing my face full of processed nacho cheese, la gasp. ⁓

Julie Duffy Dillon (12:18)

Yeah.

mean, hello,

it was a Super Bowl, you were being an American. That’s what we do. It’s part of our holiday.

Coleen (she/her) (12:43)

Thank you, thank you. We

eat, that is like what we do during holidays, games, like, gosh, wow, okay. So, so freaking problematic. ⁓ And just, so here are like my key takeaways from watching it. It was reinforcing that, you know, weight stigma, which as we know, has so many alternate consequences on our health, weight stigma alone.

Julie Duffy Dillon (12:48)

Yes!

Again, what a mixed message, right? Because yes.

Right, right.

Coleen (she/her) (13:13)

So there’s that because I could like feel the inflammation in my body as I was like watching this commercial and the stress. ⁓ It plays into food fear that we need to fear food because food is the problem and gives no nuance to our relationship with food, health and weight, which is, it is so much more nuanced than what that commercial was portraying. ⁓ This also puts pressure on one person

Julie Duffy Dillon (13:17)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Coleen (she/her) (13:43)

to escape the weight stigma. Like we have to change ourselves and it’s up to us that one individual to fix it. I’m using air quotes here. ⁓ So I just like, and again, it’s back to that like problematic narrative that the only way that this problem is solved is by shrinking ourselves. Just yikes. This ad gave me the biggest ick. I haven’t seen something on television give me this serious.

Julie Duffy Dillon (13:45)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Gotcha.

Mm-hmm.

Coleen (she/her) (14:11)

like visceral reaction as like rewatching Friends. I, I just like, I was like, what is happening? Why are we going? But then again, we’re just regressing in every way, and form in our society right now. So, ⁓ I feel like, yeah, it just, it made me so sad to watching that and thinking of all the people who have had eating disorders, have eating disorders or disordered eating.

Julie Duffy Dillon (14:15)

yeah. Yes.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Coleen (she/her) (14:39)

and mental health challenges because there was some really triggering language around what that looks like. And it could potentially reinforce their own fears that they need to do really drastic things to be accepted. And we are human beings and we crave, we have a desire to be accepted in community. And this just felt so othering in a way that I just haven’t seen.

Julie Duffy Dillon (14:44)

Yes. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Coleen (she/her) (15:09)

in such a public setting in a really long time. It shocked me and my blood was boiling. And it’s hard to say like that I’m shocked during anything this administration does and yet I was sitting there flabbergasted, mouth on the floor.

Julie Duffy Dillon (15:27)

Yeah, because this was a government commercial. Yeah. There’s a couple of things that I want to just name for the record. ⁓ Mike Tyson mentioned in the commercial that his sister died when she was 25 because of the O word because of her weight. And what I think is really important is that’s not like a cause of death. ⁓

Coleen (she/her) (15:29)

Yeah. Yep.

Julie Duffy Dillon (15:57)

It’s a, if she died of a heart attack, her cause of death is a heart attack. Like there’s, there’s no, ⁓ there are plenty, plenty of skinny people dying of a myocardial infarction at any age and you can be any size. And there has yet to be discovered one disease that only impacts higher weight people. So like everything out there that you could be any size and get. So.

I just have to put it out there. know, like just for the record, that actually is not correct. And then… ⁓

What do you think about the choice to have Mike Tyson?

as like the spokesperson for this commercial.

You

Rachel Popik (16:43)

I’ll let you go.

Coleen (she/her) (16:46)

I feel like…

just I have to think about like, the conversations that are happening behind the marketing doors, right? Because I am in marketing. ⁓ And so I’m thinking about like, okay, they literally sat down in that boardroom, and they brainstormed on a whiteboard or virtually with somebody and they were like, Okay, who’s our target? Like, who do we want this commercial to reach? Right? And they they laid out characters of

Julie Duffy Dillon (16:57)

Yes, that’s exactly right.

Coleen (she/her) (17:18)

target individuals that they wanted to reach. And they thought the best person to reach those target individuals would be Mike Tyson. So it begs the question, what do those individuals look like? And what was the purpose and push in hiring Mike Tyson to do that commercial? And his agent was open to it, right? Because his agent obviously is his representative.

Julie Duffy Dillon (17:31)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Right.

Coleen (she/her) (17:48)

⁓ And he had to be open to it. So I think that, you know, it’s just very, very interesting.

Julie Duffy Dillon (17:56)

Yeah. he, you know, I’m also like, we know that the government is behind this advertisement, the United States government, and who are the big people in it right now. And you know, Mike Tyson was really big in the 80s and 90s. He bit off an opponent’s ear. He was in trouble. I can’t remember if he got actually like, if he went through a court of law for just a legend about domestic violence. So, you know, I don’t remember.

So I don’t know if it was alleged or if he actually went to jail for it. ⁓ But I mean, this is like someone who had a really complicated kind of history, especially with violence and a boxer. And again, I just did they know but Bad Bunny was gonna be doing in the in the routine because Bad Bunny had boxers in his show too. And ⁓ some of the things that I’ve been like, ⁓

reading about the breakdown and the symbolism and why Bad Bunny chose certain things. Boxers were in there on purpose to talk about the toxic masculinity within his culture and also how boxing is a way for many people to be able to get out of poverty. And I’m like, this is really interesting that they chose Mike Tyson. ⁓ Because something that I know the three of us talk about is how much ⁓ not having access to food

really is like the big impact on health more than body size and ultra processed foods and things like that. yeah, I just thought it was like that is the craziest coincidence that both like that was represented in this commercial too. So I don’t know.

Rachel Popik (19:37)

Yeah. Well, also think I don’t, this is my memory. So like, I could be wrong, but I feel like not too long ago, Mike Tyson was doing like fast food commercial. So it’s just, it’s just like another layer of how people who are in commercials don’t necessarily like stand firmly behind or like

Julie Duffy Dillon (19:49)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, they’re getting paid. Yeah. Yeah.

Coleen (she/her) (20:04)

Yeah, that’s

why I was saying like his agent made that decision, right?

Julie Duffy Dillon (20:05)

Yeah.

Rachel Popik (20:07)

Right, like they’re being paid

Julie Duffy Dillon (20:08)

Yeah.

Rachel Popik (20:09)

to say the things that they are. And. Right, like.

Julie Duffy Dillon (20:11)

Yeah. That’s the fake tear that was coming down his cheek or like coming. I was like, that is not real. ⁓ Someone had a little dropper. I went, okay, Yes. ⁓ and you know, it’s so interesting again, another coincidence, because we had slated to talk about today how non-diet and like body positivity, fat positivity, those are topics that are not quote trendy anymore.

Coleen (she/her) (20:36)

Mm-hmm.

Julie Duffy Dillon (20:37)

and how it’s harder to find spaces that include that as part of like the foundation. And then Shazam, just like Coleen always says, ⁓ when I got your text, I was like, well, we know how we’re starting the conversation. Thanks, Michael.

Coleen (she/her) (20:45)

Universe always provides.

Rachel Popik (20:46)

was polite.

Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (20:59)

Wow.

Coleen (she/her) (20:59)

So that is a great segue into how trends have changed and why. So Rachel, do you wanna kick us off?

Julie Duffy Dillon (21:02)

Thank you.

Rachel Popik (21:11)

Sure. mean, how trends have changed, I feel like we had in the like, you know, the last decade or so this, I don’t want to say utopia, but there was like a push towards, it was kind of long and it was like this body positivity was an accepted term and like idea that, you know, starving ourselves is not.

Julie Duffy Dillon (21:23)

It was coming along, yeah.

Rachel Popik (21:41)

the way to go and things were kind of progressing in this forward way. There were a lot of like fat activists that were given platforms and people were taking them seriously. It was also during the time when like both Coleen and I were kind of making these changes in our own lives. And I think that, I mean, my read on it is there is a certain amount of

Now, there is a lot of energy that an individual spends thinking about restricting food and being smaller and dieting when they’re in that space. And it’s kind of all consuming. Plus food gives us energy, right? And when we’re starving ourselves, we have less energy. And we were seeing this world where people were having energy. They were fighting for ⁓ equal rights. They were fighting for

Julie Duffy Dillon (22:39)

Hmm.

Rachel Popik (22:40)

⁓ acceptance and that is not a good thing for the system. Right. And so there’s this backlash and this switch towards like the heroin chic being back in the low rise jeans, the like all of these things. And I think that Ozempic and other GLP ones being marketed as weight loss drugs has like a huge, you know,

Julie Duffy Dillon (22:45)

Mm-hmm.

Rachel Popik (23:09)

role to play in that. ⁓ But yeah, think ultimately it comes down to when we are not spending all of our time thinking about what we’re going to eat and how much we’re going to eat and counting calories and starving ourselves, we have a lot more time to focus on things that matter and to fight for things that are ultimately, I’m just kind of rambling at this point, but you know what I’m saying.

Julie Duffy Dillon (23:36)

You

Rachel Popik (23:39)

You know what I Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (23:39)

I do. Yeah, yeah. No, the ramble is appreciated.

Coleen (she/her) (23:42)

Yeah.

What about you, Julie? What are you thinking?

Rachel Popik (23:45)

So that’s my seal.

Julie Duffy Dillon (23:48)

you know, the, the Atlanta ⁓ ad campaign that I was mentioning earlier, it only lasted, it was lasted like less than a year. And part of what happened that helped push that was, ⁓ many weight inclusive providers, health at every size was as a, as a, a movement was starting to gain, gain traction, you know,

It started in the late 60s, it was something was finally kind of gaining traction, especially in like professional circles and researchers were starting to use it more. ⁓ And so when that campaign came out in Atlanta, ⁓ many of my colleagues did these kind of like in the same style, like the black and white pictures. And ⁓ I can’t remember what they said. It was something like, I stand with higher weight people or so, I don’t know. And it had like, and they had a reason underneath.

⁓ Like, because you can’t tell anyone’s health by their size, you know, they had some kind of things that they would say. And so the Atlanta campaign ended early. It got taken away. But I will put in the show notes a link to like ⁓ more about like why they actually ended the campaign, but because it was pressure. And this was a time where, again, like the non-diet space was starting to gain traction.

Coleen (she/her) (24:51)

Mm-hmm.

Julie Duffy Dillon (25:09)

And so I think what is really important to kind of consider as we’re noticing the trends change is like, we can use history to inform us that, ⁓ you know, just like a pendulum that we think about with like our relationship with food, like if you don’t eat enough that you’re gonna wanna eat more. And ⁓ when a system gets everything they want and they have lots of power, then there’s gonna be more people pushing against, right? And the pendulum is gonna swing. But then,

at the same time as more of the people get their needs met and there’s more freedom than the systems push back and the pendulum swinging back and forth. I think I’ve mentioned this before, but I remember a hairdresser of mine many years ago. mean, seriously, like 15, 20 years ago, he was my hairstylist and we were talking about trends and I was like,

what do you think the next trend is? And he was like, that’s easy. It’s just what is the opposite of right now. And so I think about that with ⁓ food, body image. ⁓ I mean, it feels so trite to even name it in that way. But historians often talk about this. And there was this ⁓ piece that I read about. And my gosh, I can’t remember all the historical kind of ⁓ exactness with it.

Rachel Popik (26:06)

Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (26:31)

I remember reading about a group of people in Germany before World War II that there was lots of gender equality and sexual revolution happening. Do you know what I’m talking about?

Rachel Popik (26:46)

Vaguely

Julie Duffy Dillon (26:47)

Yeah, yeah.

so it was like this acceptance. And all of a sudden then that’s when, you know, Hitler started to get more power and all that stuff. And so as the trad wife and clean eating, as that was starting to become more popular, I would say like three or four years ago, a lot of my colleagues were like, no, Trump is going to be president again. And I was like, what are you talking about?

Rachel Popik (27:09)

Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (27:17)

Like we were just freshly new with Biden with his bandaid over a bullet hole, right? So I don’t know. I was like, there’s no way he’ll get it you know, it again. And we can use trends to predict this. And so I think that this is why it’s happening.

Rachel Popik (27:20)

you

Julie Duffy Dillon (27:35)

All right, we lost Coleen, but she’ll be back. So we’re gonna continue. The show must go on. ⁓ Yes, but I…

Rachel Popik (27:40)

show must go on. I do think

it’s a good reminder that all of these systems are connected, right? your dietitian friends who were seeing a rise in the trad wife homesteading kind of space, and that was a red flag to be like, we’re not done with Trump, we’re not done with the fascism. Those things are all so intertwined.

Julie Duffy Dillon (27:47)

They’re all connected. Yeah.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Yes,

they all can like, we can predict these things. And I think that’s something that I mean, it’s good that we’re recording this, like, let’s make sure that we remember this. Like, that’s why we can use history to help us in the future. And also, like, I don’t know about you all, but like, seeing body positivity, which I keep using that phrase, because I feel like that’s the most accessible and like,

It also was what was like the trendy side of things, but seeing that lose its traction, it brings up lot of hopelessness for me. because 20 plus years I’ve been doing this. so, ⁓ when I say doing this, I mean, I’ve been like trying to like normalize like a non-diet experience. And as I say this, I’m like, and I’m not being oppressed by these systems that talk about size. like, ⁓

The collective fatigue of everyone has got to be just, my gosh. But thinking about the systems and the history repeating itself gives me hope. I’m like, okay, we’ve been here before, we can do this again. And

Okay. So, ⁓ welcome back, Coleen. We’re glad that you’re joining us, even though it’s just audio, but we’re going to make it work. And, you know, Rachel and I were just talking about how trends have changed and kind of our guesses as to why. Tell us what your

Coleen (she/her) (29:21)

Hi.

Julie Duffy Dillon (29:34)

what you’re thinking.

Coleen (she/her) (29:35)

Yeah, I feel like weighted vests are just making a big surge right now. And supposedly, if they’re popular for building muscle strength and increasing bone density and burning more calories and all this cardiovascular endurance without needing extra equipment, then what’s the big deal with me being in a higher weight body all the time? But seriously, make it make sense.

Julie Duffy Dillon (30:00)

Amen.

Rachel Popik (30:01)

Hell

yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (30:03)

Yeah, yes. I’ve never had a viral, I never had a viral post on Substack. But the one that came close for me was one where I was like, with all the trendiness of weighted vest, can we finally admit there is actually a benefit to being in a higher weight body? Yeah, I mean, seriously, right? You got you have a point.

Coleen (she/her) (30:04)

So.

Rachel Popik (30:18)

Hmm?

Coleen (she/her) (30:19)

Thank you. ⁓

Julie Duffy Dillon (30:28)

OK, so now that we’ve talked about why trends have changed, let’s focus on actually what we plan to talk about in this episode, which was now that

Fat positivity isn’t trending anymore. I think, Rachel, you were the first person who brought up something about this. Sometimes there’s these hidden spots where you’re finding it, ⁓ whether it’s body acceptance or non-diet kind of experiences. And it’s so delightful. ⁓ So we had some technical difficulties with Coleen. So I’m going to have Coleen share her ⁓ experiences here. So let’s get to Coleen.

Coleen (she/her) (31:07)

that I’m seeing fat positivity show up and delight, ⁓ one of which was seeing Real Women Have Curves on Broadway last year with my mom. And it’s the show that follows a group of women and their struggles with not only their bodies, but societal expectations and difficult family dynamics, immigration issues, and just finding the courage to follow their dreams.

It was so beautiful and like blended, know, like just the their culture with like being an American and it was just such a beautiful show. And they do this number in their underwear on stage. And my inner child theater kid like healed seeing women who look like me on Broadway, like just always being told that I was too big to ever play the lead or on Janu and.

Julie Duffy Dillon (31:48)

Aww.

Coleen (she/her) (31:55)

I just loved it so much. was like weeping and just seeing it with my mom was really special too. Cause it was like, you know, I have a tough just relationship around food with my own family. And so it just, it kind of healed like in an unspoken way, healed something between us too. It was just, it was so beautiful. ⁓ And yeah, highly recommend seeing it or listening to the

Julie Duffy Dillon (31:56)

Hmm.

Rachel Popik (32:20)

So powerful.

Julie Duffy Dillon (32:21)

Yeah.

Coleen (she/her) (32:23)

the album if you haven’t, it’s just really powerful. ⁓ And then some of my favorite folks on Instagram are rvafatties. It’s just really joyful and a celebration of leaning into who we are and who we’re growing into. And Sean Taylor created it who you may remember from the circle. And then of course our very own Rachel at staydoe on Instagram who just reminds us to nourish ourselves in times of resistance and

that’s really the only way that we can fight for what’s right because we can’t do anything if we’re hungry. And I just, I always am inspired to see her recipes, her showing up as her true self. And it’s just like, it’s very, very cool to just see not only your like, you know, people you look up to, but also people you look up to who happen to be your friends and like fighting day in and day out for, what’s right.

Julie Duffy Dillon (32:58)

Yes.

All right, Rachel, tell us about when you have been surprised with fat positivity in real time.

Rachel Popik (33:22)

So it wasn’t even like fat positivity, it was just like pure neutrality. I went to a Korean spa, Shout Out Island Spa in Edison, New Jersey with my sister a few weeks ago now. And if you’ve never been to a Korean spa, and I know it’s similar with like Turkish, Russian bath houses, there are like sex segregated bath parts where you’re completely nude. And…

Julie Duffy Dillon (33:27)

Ooh.

Rachel Popik (33:49)

being around a ton of ⁓ people who identify as women, fully naked in like all different shapes, size, bodies, all different ages in just this way that was like, no one was looking at each other. No one was focused on their bodies. Just seeing that and interacting with that in a neutral way was like really healing to a part of me. And it made me think like, ⁓

Julie Duffy Dillon (34:05)

Mm-hmm.

Rachel Popik (34:19)

I think that Americans would be a lot less fat phobic if seeing naked people were more normalized. Like we’re, we live in a ⁓ culture in a society where there’s so much shame around your body and there’s so much shame around nudity. And it’s seen as like a sexual thing rather than just like this is, we all have these like flesh suits that help us, you know, like exist in the world and

Julie Duffy Dillon (34:26)

⁓ Right.

Yes. Yeah.

Mm hmm. This is just a body. Yes.

Rachel Popik (34:48)

And that’s all it has to be. It doesn’t have to be this like sexual thing or this, this thing that’s, that exists for the pleasure of other people. Just being in a place where, you know, you’re taking care of yourself and you’re relaxing with your friends and you’re socializing and you happen to be naked and all of these other people happen to be naked and everyone has a different, you know, like all skinny people look different. Like there isn’t like one.

Julie Duffy Dillon (34:57)

Mm-hmm.

Yes,

yes.

Rachel Popik (35:15)

body

or there isn’t one fat body or there isn’t one like old body like everyone looks different. ⁓ It’s like really magical and that to top it all off so ⁓ if you’ve never gotten like a Korean body scrub basically you like lay on this table ⁓ and you’re nude and

Julie Duffy Dillon (35:25)

Yes.

Rachel Popik (35:41)

generally it’s a person of the same sex who’s like doing the scrub. they were all happened to be like older Korean ladies who are all wearing these like really cute like bras and panties. We’re just like, you know, scrubbing you and cleaning you and massaging you. And there was something so like beautifully like maternal about it. Yeah, it was just, it was a magical experience. And I’ve been to like a lot of

Julie Duffy Dillon (35:53)

Uh-huh.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that’s what it sounds like. Yeah.

I love that.

Rachel Popik (36:09)

Korean spas in my life, really enjoy it. But that one in particular was like a really beautiful experience. So I’m all for.

Julie Duffy Dillon (36:12)

Hmm.

Yeah. It reminds me, yeah.

And it reminds me that so much of why we individually are trained to hate our bodies comes from these cultural rules and regulations about like, ⁓ yeah, like seeing a naked body is wrong or it’s sexual or ⁓ it’s for someone else’s pleasure if you’re socialized as a woman and how that

Rachel Popik (36:30)

you

Julie Duffy Dillon (36:45)

trains our brain to then be ashamed of our body, especially as we’re going through body changes that we all go through, or if we don’t look like the conventional beauty of the moment. And ⁓ it’s interesting because I have two different experiences that I want to share where I found this. And one of them has to also do with naked bodies, which cracks me up. ⁓ But I went to France, let’s see, about five years ago now.

Rachel Popik (36:52)

Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (37:12)

with a group of women that were kind of newer to me friends, they’re my neighbors and we got to know each other over the pandemic. Like we quickly started to like just rely on each other and we became this kind of community. I’ve talked about them many times on the podcast. But one thing that happened is we, I mean, this sounds so bougie, but it was just because like my friend’s sister’s friend, owned Chateau.

I mean, okay, so like I’m in a chateau. So I mean, that’s what I made it almost like magical because we were in the chateau of the south of France, you know, but there was a pool and it was heated. And I think we were there in like October, I think. And so it was cold out, but it was a heated pool. And of course we were drinking wine and someone’s like, we should go skinny dipping. And at first I was like, oh no.

Rachel Popik (37:43)

⁓ damn.

Julie Duffy Dillon (38:10)

this was a time where I could appreciate that my eyes had been, especially during COVID, just not used to seeing normal bodies anymore. And so as my friends were stripping, I was just seeing all these different bodies. And most people in this group were older than me, which is part of what I was going through, was getting used to an aging body as well. And so I just remember in that moment being like, this is so reparative.

This is so wonderful for my body to remember. These are friends I love so much and they are so beautiful. They are my friends. And if my body is like theirs or not, who the fuck cares? Like this is such a loving place to be in right now. ⁓ like, we are like, I don’t know, there was just something that was so reparative about it and it helped me like realign with my values. And I was just super grateful.

But then this other experience I have had over the last ⁓ five or six years is being a part of this exercise group, which is so funny. because I’m not like a weightlifter or anything like that, but also during COVID, my neighbor was like, hey, do you want to come do this weightlifting class with me? This person who is a weightlifting instructor does these classes in someone’s driveway. ⁓

Rachel Popik (39:35)

That’s so fun!

Julie Duffy Dillon (39:36)

Yes. so when I get there, because this neighbor of mine is a few years younger than me. So when I get there, I am the second youngest by at least 10 years. And so again, I think it was just like this wonderful timing, because we were all clothes, obviously, you know, doing this, these weightlifting and it was body pump in case you’re like, what kind of classes were they? Like, so they have music and, know, we’re lifting weights and everything. But ⁓ the type of body talk was like,

Rachel Popik (39:51)

Hmm.

Julie Duffy Dillon (40:05)

we’re gonna get it swole and my God, I’m so strong. ⁓ something like, ⁓ they would tease me in the beginning as I started, anybody who was new, who was using like the one pound weights, they’re like, we don’t let friends use one pound weights for very long, like we’re gonna push you to like get stronger, know? ⁓ And just, and seeing bodies that were bigger than mine, older than mine, lift so much weight. And I was like, wow.

Rachel Popik (40:16)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (40:33)

That’s amazing. And admiring the strength in a body that was not represented what I was trained to think of as strong, I was like, fuck yeah, this is what I need. So from what I’m hearing from the two of us and also what Coleen was sharing is being in different groups is part of where we can find neither neutrality or positivity. ⁓ I also think there’s something with art how

Rachel Popik (40:53)

Mm-hmm.

Julie Duffy Dillon (41:03)

⁓ Coleen was mentioning about the theater. ⁓ Art is always where I think so much can be found in times of fascism and oppression. ⁓ Anything you want to add to that?

Rachel Popik (41:10)

Absolutely.

think the only thing as you’re talking about like, we’re talking obviously about body size, but also we have a culture that has a lot of stigma against aging people. And so my mom is, she works in a continuing care community in the fitness area. And so she works with people who are older who are working on their strength.

Julie Duffy Dillon (41:28)

Mm-hmm.

Rachel Popik (41:45)

People have all different abilities, but I remember being younger and there were these few older women who were like in their late 90s, early 100s. Like I remember there was this one woman who was 104 and she was still playing like water

right? Like these women especially like who were just so much older and still just like.

doing what they loved and having the strength to do it and just being joyful and that’s really powerful.

Julie Duffy Dillon (42:16)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that’s the same time. I think it’s important to name, because I know you value this too, is how we’re so obsessed with ability too and taking care. You don’t have to be able to do all these things till you’re 100. I think so much of the conversation, even the Mike Tyson thing we talking about earlier, drills down to this fear of being disabled. ⁓

Rachel Popik (42:29)

Yeah. ⁓

Julie Duffy Dillon (42:48)

you know, talking about community and having connections to different type of people, I think just helps us to be able to rely on each other, which then, you know, because we’re going to get disabled, we’re going to have times when we’re not going to be able to do things and. ⁓

Rachel Popik (42:56)

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

And whether

that’s a permanent disability or a temporary one, we’re just aging. Yeah. Reminding, remembering that like we don’t live in a disability friendly society. And that’s something that we should all be working towards because you can become disabled at any time. Anyone can, even if you’re, you know, ultra-marathoning and eating a raw food diet, you can become disabled at any time.

Julie Duffy Dillon (43:06)

Right, just age or just aging,

No, yeah.

Right.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And

those are folks that have also experienced a heart attack at 25,

bring it back to my Jason again. None of us are getting out of here alive is always the thing that I wanna say whenever we talk about longevity and health and things like that and aging. so being joyful in the body that you’re in while you’re alive, I think that, I don’t know, I think that’s my goal.

Rachel Popik (43:58)

Yep, ⁓

Julie Duffy Dillon (44:00)

It should be. Well, thank you, Rachel and Coleen. I appreciate your time. Yes.

Rachel Popik (44:03)

You’re welcome. It was lovely chatting as always.

Julie Duffy Dillon (44:07)

So there you have it. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Coleen and Rachel as we broke down the Mike Tyson Super Bowl ad. And we will be back for one more chat episode. And it’s gonna be about books and your relationship with food and your relationship with body that will be in ⁓ four weeks. And then the next episode will be a special episode. It’s my last guest episode and it’s going to be with IBS experts.

Beth Rosen. I’m super excited to share that one with you because Beth and I have had a friendship for many, many years and she’s also an amazing dietitian for GI disorders. All right, so that is the end of this episode. We look forward to being in your ears in the next two weeks. Until then, take care.

The Find Your Food Voice podcast is written, produced, and edited by me, Julie Duffy Dillon. Coleen and Rachel also helped write and produce this episode. And Rachel is the person behind the scenes that helps get this episode up and running so you can actually get it into your ears. I ⁓ just so appreciate the two of you so, much.

Stay connected with us on Substack. It’s findyourfoodvoice.substack.com. There you’ll get monthly research deep dives on PCOS topics that can help you promote health without another rigid diet.