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Julie Duffy Dillon (00:01)

Hey there, welcome to episode 427 of the Find Your Food Voice podcast. Today we are building brick by brick what a post-diet culture world looks like. Let’s get to it.

Hey there, I am Julie Duffy Dillon, registered dietitian and your host of Find Your Food Voice. This is a podcast where we help to find a new way to live without dieting, without the pursuit of weight loss, without the thin ideal. And I have a very special episode with Rachel Popik and Coleen Bremner who are two members of the Find Your Food Voice team that helped me behind the scenes a ton. And we are talking about

what life could actually look like if we collectively could get our shit together and figure out a way to have a life without dieting. And then it was like this universal standard. And it’s something where we decided instead of talking about all the negative, we wanted to just turn it on its head and like, let’s dream, let’s maybe manifest, let’s put this all together so maybe we can actually build it.

And we conclude the episode with what we think actually needs to happen. Like how can we make this change? And it’s gonna start small. It’s gonna start with me and you doing the work to help our community get stronger and like get rid of the isolation that has been really something that’s become the norm with how we relate to each other. So I am excited to get this conversation going for you, but a few announcements.

This is going to be the last episode for 2025 and I will still be posting on Substack. And if you don’t know Substack, well, that’s another social media platform and where it’s been the place where I’ve been doing a lot of writing, especially after I published the Find Your Food Voice book. And I basically like just diving deeper into all the things that I was writing about, especially if you have insulin resistance and PCOS, I’m unpacking a lot of the ways that you can reject dieting.

and promote health with PCOS. In particular, I’ve written recently on does PCOS get better after menopause? Also the yearly lab list that I recommend everyone take to their doctor when you have PCOS because you need so much more than an A1C. And of course I have a very thorough, and I guess it is kind of long. I reached the substack limit when I was writing it.

but I was wanting to review the research on how do GLP-1s actually impact PCOS and more than just weight loss. Like we have lots of access to that information. Like how does it actually impact some of those labs that I encourage you to get checked like triglycerides and some other ones. And yeah, so I know those have been really helpful for a lot of people and you can get to all of those links below in the show notes. So I will be continuing to post more.

on Substack through the end of 2025 and of course throughout all of next year. And by connecting on Substack, subscribing there, whether you’re a free or paid subscriber, it does help us as a team. And in particular, if you’re able to join as a paid subscriber, it is something that helps me and my team to be able to pay our bills and to keep us like having a living wage as we are navigating life in 2025 and 2026.

And like I mentioned too, if you also want to support us by purchasing a copy of the Find Your Food Voice book, we greatly appreciate it. We have a link below from Bookshop where you can purchase the book, but also you can purchase it anywhere books are sold. I encourage you to pick it up at your local bookstore or maybe ask your librarian if she could have it there at your library. All of those things really help me and my team to be able to continue to do the work that we love doing so much.

All right, before we get to the conversation with the team, a very quick sponsor break.

Julie Duffy Dillon (04:13)

Hey there team, how’s it going?

Coleen (she/her) (04:15)

Hey!

Rachel (04:15)

Good,

how you doing?

Julie Duffy Dillon (04:17)

Good. It’s nice to check in with it with you all. It’s been a while. Yeah. Yes. And I don’t know, team, if you know this, but we’re recording this in October, but listeners are listening to this in December.

Rachel (04:20)

I know.

Coleen (she/her) (04:21)

⁓ on time, no chat.

Rachel (04:31)

I was

trying to put my mind frame in like, where am I going to be at the end of the year when people are listening?

Julie Duffy Dillon (04:37)

Yes, yes, maybe we’ll be celebrating something in the streets. Listeners know what we’re talking about. So, with that being said, people are listening if they celebrate Christmas, it’s right around that time, getting closer to the of the year. So we have a different kind of show for you.

Coleen (she/her) (04:42)

would be great.

Yeah. Well, I think this came about because actually, Rachel, like, do you want to chat about how this conversation came up and maybe what we’re chatting about today?

Rachel (05:07)

Yeah, sure. So this conversation came about because my lovely husband, who is a dedicated listener to this podcast, ⁓ tested me and Coleen after he listened to the Love Chub episode, so a while ago, and said, I’m just going to read what he said because he articulated it pretty well. I was finishing listening to the Love Chub episode and was thinking about how you all do a lot of critiquing of diet culture.

Coleen (she/her) (05:15)

You

Julie Duffy Dillon (05:15)

Hey!

Rachel (05:34)

And while you talk about your individual healing journeys or positive stuff that you’ve seen, it would be really cool to see more of a quote, this is what it would look like for the world, country, our community, if we got the world we wanted. So really leaning into and thinking through that like more utopian thinking, which is something that for a long time I really struggled with, but in the past few years have really pushed myself into flexing that.

creative muscle of utopian thinking. And I think it’s really helpful in defining not just what you’re against, but what you’re for. And it helps people to like come up with a shared vision for like what we’re motivated in and we’re working towards. I think it’s daunting. There’s a lot of systems that are broken and need to be changed to have a better world.

Julie Duffy Dillon (06:01)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Rachel (06:26)

And oftentimes we can get kind of like caught in the muck of that and feeling overwhelmed. And I think having the practice of looking to that future and not being like, well, this is a barrier and this is a barrier, but just if we could have things the way we wanted, what does a future in our community, in our country, in the world that is not impacted by diet culture? Like, what does that look like?

Julie Duffy Dillon (06:54)

Mm-hmm.

Rachel (06:55)

Even if it’s

not achievable in our lifetimes, it’s just like a good like light post to be working towards.

Julie Duffy Dillon (07:04)

And I would imagine all the manifestation girlies that are listening, I’m saying that in tug and cheek, are excited to be hearing this because I think about like, you have to actually imagine what you want it to look like if you want it to come true. Again, the manifestation people are like, yes, we’ve been telling you this. ⁓ But Rachel, can I ask you a question about something you said? You said something in the beginning, I wanna make sure I understood you clearly, like picturing like this.

Coleen (she/her) (07:20)

Ha ha ha!

Rachel (07:23)

Yeah, of course.

Julie Duffy Dillon (07:30)

positive or like utopian world was like kind of a newer thing for you. I can’t remember exactly how you said it. Was it, was it, it, yeah, I guess just tell me more about that. Like have you found yourself like feeling maybe more negative and so it’s hard to imagine life without dieting? Is that what you’re, you were saying?

Rachel (07:48)

Yeah,

I mean, like even beyond diet culture, I feel like this was really a big thing, at least in the circles that I am in find myself in, especially like in 2020 during like lockdown during the uprisings where and really kind of through a lens of abolition is abolition abolition is, um, wow, that was a really hard word for me.

Julie Duffy Dillon (08:00)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, there’s a lot of vowels in that word.

Yeah.

Rachel (08:16)

but like thinking through, right, what does a world without police look like or what does a world without racism look like? And I remember my sister would try and prompt those conversations, especially in our little like COVID pod, we were always together. And I really just struggled with that sort of abstract thinking.

Julie Duffy Dillon (08:22)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Rachel (08:40)

and being able to like put aside all of the, but like, but this would have to happen and this would have to happen. And like, I can’t imagine that utopian world because I’m just so focused on all the barriers. And I think largely because I was probably in a little negative mental health space. ⁓ But having enough of those conversations and really pushing myself to put aside the barriers.

Julie Duffy Dillon (08:51)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Rachel (09:08)

I’ve found that that practice of utopian thinking has been really generative.

Julie Duffy Dillon (09:13)

Yeah, yeah. Well, I’m excited that I’m done unpacking all this.

Coleen (she/her) (09:16)

Yeah, I mean, so thank you for bringing this and thank you to Rachel’s spouse for bringing this up as well. Cause I think we’re all really excited to chat through this and just think a little bit more about this. And Rachel, to your point, I kind of had a hard time thinking about or flexing this muscle. I think.

Julie Duffy Dillon (09:38)

you

Coleen (she/her) (09:38)

you know, this is different than toxic positivity, right? Like this is a different way of thinking. So it’s more thinking like, okay, like in an ideal world, what would this look like? And so to get this conversation started, let’s talk about kind of, you know, where we are right now. Why do we need this reframe right now? You know, what is exhausting us? Julie, do you want to start?

Julie Duffy Dillon (09:48)

Mm-hmm.

Sure. And it feels very timely because I just got back from the Dietitian Super Bowl, the big dietitian conference over a year. And it was really interesting to be there now in our times of where so much of like the basis of like food conversations are really surfacey and harmful, you know, focusing on

Coleen (she/her) (10:29)

Mm.

Julie Duffy Dillon (10:30)

more like, let’s remove red dye or let’s take away processed foods. And then at the same time, the CDC getting wiped out and SNAP eliminated. I talked to so many dieticians who are SNAP dieticians or WIC dieticians who are shook and really like so worried about people they’ve been working with. so, yeah, so that like,

Coleen (she/her) (10:39)

Mm.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Rachel (10:49)

Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (10:58)

so much of the like not being able to see the big picture of like, how do we actually help improve health is why we need to do this, I think. And of course, we’ve talked a lot about like GLP-1s, they’ve destabilized a lot of the progression in anti-fat kind of spaces and helping the world to see its anti-fat bias. This GLP-1 is like, well, wait, now we have an option. ⁓ So that’s

Coleen (she/her) (11:23)

Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (11:25)

Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Yeah.

Coleen (she/her) (11:27)

Yeah, I really appreciate you bringing up kind of the snap component because I think we’re going to talk a little bit about that when we get into this kind of like ideal way of thinking. Rachel, what about you?

Julie Duffy Dillon (11:34)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Rachel (11:40)

I mean, I think similarly we’re, you know, we’re in a space where we’re in the like decline of the body positive movement. Like we were really all about the body positivity for a few years and that is going away due to all the things that Julie already mentioned. But I think that similarly to what I said about this practice that I went through in 2020 and like during the uprisings in a way you can kind of look at the

diet culture space in a, I’m not equating that to the 2020 uprisings, but kind of the similar decline in progress and really kind of taking a moment to step back and do that helpful switch in thinking from like all of this bad that is around us to like, can we look forward to?

Coleen (she/her) (12:34)

Yeah. It’s it even when you say it, I notice like a shift in my body too. Like when you say like what when we shift to what this could be, it’s like I feel a little bit lighter, which is interesting because it’s just even you just saying those words out loud has that impact. Yeah, I think, you know, for me,

Rachel (12:49)

Bye!

Julie Duffy Dillon (12:49)

Hmm.

Coleen (she/her) (12:57)

I’m feeling a little exhausted by this situation kind of happening in my close circle. Someone is really kind of buying into diet culture and being lured by this like the shiny things that feel attainable and life changing. And I understand that. I have a lot of empathy for that. And so with this kind of on the horizon,

situation that’s happening. I don’t want to dive too deeply into what’s going on, but I will say that I’m just noticing a lot is coming up in me and it is exhausting. It’s a lot. feels like a lot of emotional labor that I am kind of unpacking and taking on. when I don’t even think the person maybe is even going as deeply into this as, you know, I might be. So it’s just, it’s, there’s a lot that’s just making me feel.

about this. So I feel like this conversation couldn’t be coming at a better time. And yeah, I think, you know, let’s just get into it. What does a post diet culture world look like to us? And what is our, you know, utopic version of it? Rachel, do you want to start?

Julie Duffy Dillon (13:53)

Yeah.

Rachel (14:07)

Sure, I can start. think I was like typing up all of these things that I would want to see. And I think that the kind of encapsulation of it all is just accessibility is kind of the umbrella, right? So like food is accessible to everyone. Movement is joyful and accessible to everyone in all different forms. Clothing is accessible to everyone and like fits all bodies or

maybe like tailoring is accessible to everyone. Like weight isn’t a topic of conversation. Healthcare is accessible to everyone. There’s a huge focus on the community rather than the individual, like that kind of individualistic society that we currently live in has passed and we’re way more community oriented.

Food is celebrated for its ability to not just nourish, but bring people together, bring people joy, celebrate culture. Cultural foods aren’t demonized. Yeah, it’s just a lot happier of a place.

Coleen (she/her) (15:12)

Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (15:14)

Sounds so lovely.

Rachel (15:16)

Right?

Coleen (she/her) (15:16)

It does. It does.

I love that you brought up accessibility as kind of the overarching theme of your thoughts because ⁓ I think that’s really important. And as you were talking, I had this thought, kind of thinking about the barriers to accessibility and what that looks like. And the only thing that really popped so loudly into my mind was this, like, who holds power, right? ⁓

Julie Duffy Dillon (15:22)

Mm-hmm.

Mm hmm. I was thinking the same thing. Yep.

Rachel (15:39)

Yeah, yeah, totally.

Coleen (she/her) (15:41)

And

so, yeah, I just was like, it’s just so interesting to think about like the barrier to accessibility. And in my mind, it’s that power and who either feels they have it or who in reality does have it, maybe who should have it. It’s just, so, yeah, that’s kind of what I was thinking of. Julie, what about you?

Julie Duffy Dillon (15:48)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I was thinking about the power part too. And something that’s happening right now, I don’t know if the two of you have seen it. Have you all seen the new Skims thongs With listener, have you seen it with like the Bush on it?

Coleen (she/her) (16:14)

Yes. Yep.

Rachel (16:15)

Yeah.

Which is also wild to think like maybe they’ll listen, maybe this is like a new thing for us right now, but in a few months, people are, are people even gonna be talking about this anymore?

Julie Duffy Dillon (16:30)

I

So I have a really great solution for all of us with the thong. It’s like, we just don’t shave if you don’t want to, I don’t know, or don’t remove the hair. I’m like thinking about all the money people, because I’m not one of those people that’s done this, but like, people have spent so much money on like hair removal down there, down there. And now they’re like permanently removed. don’t know, it just is so, so like,

Rachel (16:46)

Thank you.

Julie Duffy Dillon (16:52)

apparent about capitalism. And that’s the big part that I see with a post-diet culture world. And I think, Rachel, what you were mentioning about the power and power hoarding and things like that, I think that’s what would be different is we would all have power. And we would see how we’re all connected. And as the dietitian in the group here, the thing that I think about is health would be totally redefined.

Rachel (17:08)

Hmm.

Julie Duffy Dillon (17:17)

Health would be like, how healthy is our community? How healthy is our country? How healthy is our world? And by health, I don’t mean like body size, of course. It’s like, does everyone have enough to eat? Does everyone have enough blankets on their bed? Does everyone have a bed? know, yes, yes. And yeah, like, and there’s not like this fear of,

Rachel (17:35)

Right. So everyone have a roof over their head if they want it.

Julie Duffy Dillon (17:44)

scarcity because we know we can rely on each other. And that’s the thing with diet culture is it’s like everyone’s in it for themselves because we’ve been told we have to do that, right? ⁓

Rachel (17:55)

Right, mean, that’s

a good point, the scarcity, like, mindset.

Julie Duffy Dillon (17:58)

Mm-hmm.

And I can appreciate, you know, there’s been like famines or there’s been times where droughts or, you know, things that happen sometimes, but when we can rely on each other, that’s how we get through those things, right? And I’m so glad you brought up 2020 and just like the times we’ve lived through together, because that’s where I started to see like,

I started a micro dose this utopia because I became really close with my neighbors and many of them just lived a few houses away, but I didn’t know them very well. somehow we all started to lean on each other in this like very stressful time. we would, someone would have like a fire pit in their yard and so we could only hang out outside. So we would like.

talk together and if someone’s family ran out of toilet paper or somebody would go get it or if someone had got COVID in their family, we’d rely on each other. And then we started doing like potlucks or things like where we would just like, I have extra zucchini, who wants it? And I appreciate that happens in a lot of places, but I think the way, maybe even in where I live, I think we were starting to be trained to just be so individual and not rely on neighbors.

That’s what I think of a post-diet culture world is like, it’s not like this is just my food. Like this is all of ours. And so yeah, when someone doesn’t have enough, would just fix it. Like we would, cause we rely on each other because like we’re all connected. And I think food is very, it’s shared. Like that’s the thing I just keep thinking about it. And cultures are honored and then those cultures are also shared. And I think about like,

the world of like, let’s just imagine American was not colonized, but somehow people still were coming in, but it was just like in a different way. I don’t know. It wasn’t through power. was like, I need a place to live. Can I join you? I don’t know, like something different. But I’m just thinking about like cultures coming together. Like what if all these cultures came together and they were honored, but then also like shared so that it became all these like so many different cultures. Like it would become.

all these different ones kind of coming together. And again, I’m like, I know this has happened before, but I just would have pictured there would be more of that. So yeah. Coleen, what about you?

Coleen (she/her) (20:12)

Yes, I just as you were talking, Julia, I was thinking about like, again, another word that just comes to mind. And that’s like humanity, like really just leaning into like that humans do need other humans and how we how we show that maybe looks different. But I was just thinking like you all really came together to show your humanity that like at in times of need, like you were there for each other. And I think

Julie Duffy Dillon (20:19)

Mmm, yes. Yes.

Mm-hmm, we need each other.

Mm-hmm.

Coleen (she/her) (20:40)

you know, not to again, not to bring this like toxic positive because COVID time was fucking terrible. I think something that was beautiful that came out of it was seeing how neighbors came together to help people or, you know, we started this group for some of the elderly people in our community building to just bring them groceries and bring them things that they needed or, you know, immunocompromised folks. So I did see a lot of that.

Julie Duffy Dillon (20:47)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Coleen (she/her) (21:07)

like shared humanity. So yeah, I just wanted to touch on that because I just think that’s really beautiful and I would love to see more of that. So yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (21:12)

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Can I mention one thing too? I think that

brings up, I don’t remember whose quote this was, but I remember someone saying that Americans love to be heroes, but not to do the right thing. And I think that’s what happened in COVID is a lot of us were like, right? We were like, we wanted to be the hero and save the people, whatever situation. But now that time has passed, the right thing is to continue to provide those things.

Rachel (21:27)

Bam.

Coleen (she/her) (21:29)

Damn.

Yeah.

Ooh, that’s good.

Julie Duffy Dillon (21:41)

Continue to provide telehealth,

continue to serve people who can’t go to the grocery store, know. Continue to mask and, yes, I was on the plane. I don’t mask all the time, but like one of the things that I do still is on an airplane, especially like takeoff and landing. And I was like, I really am the only one. But I’m like, oh well. So, yeah.

Coleen (she/her) (21:47)

Yeah.

Rachel (21:47)

Continue

to mask in public even if you’re not immunocompromised.

Yeah.

Coleen (she/her) (22:05)

Yeah, I think, yeah, I share a lot of the same sentiments you all do about, you know, what this looks like. I think something that sticks out to me and kind of started this, like my own journey was seeing a before and after photo. So just rather than seeing those being seen as accepted and not just something to achieve, or it comes down to, you know, we’ve talked a lot about this as well, but this feeling of

Julie Duffy Dillon (22:11)

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Coleen (she/her) (22:33)

always needing to like strive for something or always being productive or and I think diet culture is, you know, speaks to that quite a bit as well. I think, you know, Rachel touched on this, but you know, clothing that’s actually made to fit my body and anybody movement, like dancing and stretching and walking and swimming and resting because it feels good, not just because we need to earn it or because we need to burn it.

Julie Duffy Dillon (22:36)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Hmm.

Coleen (she/her) (22:58)

you know, mirrors even being neutral tools. I think there’s just, there’s so many things I could add to this list, but you know, weight not being linked to worth would obviously be in my utopia. ⁓ Yes, food being celebrated. We talked about this pleasure, nourishment, community, culture, all of those things. And, you know, prioritizing abundance and sustainability and equity over profit and scarcity.

Julie Duffy Dillon (23:11)

Of course, yes.

Coleen (she/her) (23:25)

so I think we all share a similar vision of, of what our utopia looks like, which also kind of tells me something. so yeah, I guess now that we’ve chatted a little bit about, about our utopia and, know, listener, as you’re listening to this, like reach out to us and let us know what yours look like. Maybe we missed something and we would love to hear from you.

Julie Duffy Dillon (23:34)

Yes.

Rachel (23:35)

What is

new?

Julie Duffy Dillon (23:46)

Mm-hmm.

Coleen (she/her) (23:49)

What has to change in our world to reach it?

Julie Duffy Dillon (23:52)

Who wants to go first?

We’re all hesitating. What is that?

Rachel (23:55)

I

can jump in. I think, and this is partly like I’m in some ways I’m better at this part than I am the like positive thinking.

Julie Duffy Dillon (24:02)

Hmm. That’s what we need

you in the in whole collection of people. Yes.

Rachel (24:08)

And it does sound really daunting to say and it’s like almost scary to say it because I truly believe like we’re not going to have a post diet culture world without it being post all of the other isms like capital isms got to be gone, racism’s got to be gone, classism’s got to be gone. all of the other oppressive and broken systems have to like they all have to be broken in order to achieve one. Like we’re not going to have

Julie Duffy Dillon (24:19)

I agree, yeah.

Coleen (she/her) (24:21)

Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (24:23)

Mm-hmm.

.

Rachel (24:36)

like a healthy post-capitalism world without having a post-diet cultural world. Like all of those things are so interconnected. And I think that at the root of all of that is this like harping back to the accessibility, right? Like everyone needs access to their basic needs. Food, shelter if they want it, clothing.

Julie Duffy Dillon (24:42)

Mm-hmm.

Rachel (25:02)

resources, like everyone has access to their basic resources and needs. I think it’s going to be huge in that first step. And then I think the, you know, we’ve, we’ve talked about it quite a bit, but the strengthening of community, I think is another huge piece of the puzzle. Like knowing that you can rely on your neighbors for resources, for safety, for support.

Julie Duffy Dillon (25:19)

Mm-hmm.

Rachel (25:29)

Yeah, I think it’s also pretty key.

Julie Duffy Dillon (25:33)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Something that I wasn’t really thinking about until like, as we’ve been talking and my brain is like moving into how this could work. I also agree about all the isms, especially capitalism, but then like as capitalism falls, I think all the other ones too will fall with it, you know? Fingers crossed.

Something that I’m thinking about though in particular is I remember years ago studying research on body image. what I remember reading in a few studies was that body image researchers found that people who lived in more rural areas, in smaller towns, had more acceptance of body diversity and just appearance in general.

compared to people who live maybe in like Manhattan or just like bigger cities. And part of what the researchers were theorizing is that in smaller communities, people know each other. Like you know the person and in bigger cities, especially with capitalism and having to work just to like maintain more things and it’s just more expensive.

the more firmly having roots in capitalism keeps people from getting to know their community. And I was like, and again, this is probably 20 years ago when I read this research. And I think about now how so much of our world is continuing to be built up on keeping us isolated and keeping us from knowing each other. And I think about these smaller communities and how they’ve been harmed over the last 20 years, especially where I live in the South. Like they are not getting the snap and they’re not getting the…

healthcare that they need because of all these cuts. And so there’s just like further isolation. So even people who normally would have more connections. So that’s what I think is a big part of this is like what has to change is really like removing all those isms and replacing it with like, we are all connected folks. we need to rely on each other.

Yeah, anyway, Coleen, what about you?

Coleen (she/her) (27:33)

Yeah, I went I went down like a rabbit hole thinking about what needs to change I think like Rachel and maybe this comes I don’t know I don’t know if this where this comes from but it’s like I think we love to I think it’s good for us to critique things and like be be be thinking about all these different things so you know I would say that the diet and beauty and wellness industries no longer profit off of insecurity you know

Julie Duffy Dillon (27:39)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, no, it’s really good.

Mmm,

yes.

Coleen (she/her) (28:00)

Policies

ensure equitable access to nutritious food, clean water, joyful movement. know, schools and homes teach body diversity and that all different bodies are accepted. You know, language shifts like words like clean, I’m using air quotes, cheat, guilt free and detox, you know, disappear from menus and marketing ⁓ or our groceries for that matter.

Julie Duffy Dillon (28:08)

Mm-hmm.

Yes. Mm-hmm.

Coleen (she/her) (28:24)

therapy

and education, know, address body image as part of emotional well-being from a young age. Rest and pleasure and softness are all considered productive too, if we must be productive. You know, media truly shows a true spectrum of bodies, unretouched and unranked. ⁓ Healthcare is really center on health and not weight.

Julie Duffy Dillon (28:36)

Yes, ooh.

Rachel (28:37)

little fast.

Julie Duffy Dillon (28:45)

Mm-hmm.

Coleen (she/her) (28:50)

And access to care isn’t limited by BMI or bias. And social media becomes a space for creativity and connection and curiosity, not comparison. So I would like to see a world without diet culture being a world where bodies are lived in and not looked at.

Rachel (29:06)

Damn, I love that.

Julie Duffy Dillon (29:07)

Yes. Yes.

Coleen (she/her) (29:07)

So that’s…

Rachel (29:10)

I love that like, on

a shirt or a sticker or something.

Julie Duffy Dillon (29:15)

think Coleen needs to be like the architect for this utopia. Like that was like so lovely, so lovely. There you go.

Coleen (she/her) (29:16)

Ha!

You know what? Maybe this will be my book. Plenty of people

write books about utopias. Maybe mine will be about trying to talk about the uprising of this utopia. Yeah.

Rachel (29:26)

Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (29:27)

think ⁓ you’re onto something. We need playbooks. And

again, the manifestation people are going to be like, write it so it can come true.

Coleen (she/her) (29:38)

Yes.

It’s been so fun talking about this though. And Rachel, like I love that you’re trying to incorporate this practice more into your own life. I think I’m going to do that too. Like, even if it’s just like a small thing a day, like, I don’t know something about like, it’s provided some levity into the day that I didn’t know I really needed. So I appreciate this conversation so much. ⁓ Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (29:46)

I know.

Mm-hmm.

So one thing before we go on, I wanted to tell you too, something

that I meant to say earlier, but I didn’t and I can’t believe it because it’s something that for me, I’ve just started to really lean on and the two of you maybe already onto this. know, but one of my friends who’s in that group that I was telling you about in the community, she’s very much politically active and a part of one of the groups that helps with like local politics to like vet.

candidates and connect the community. And, you know, we’ve done a lot of meetings lately and she’s mentioned often how we can feel just so discouraged because of things that are happening so on the federal level and then on the state level. But she’s like, we can change our community. I mean, that’s what so many conservative and like fascist type people have been doing for decades. So like, let’s go ahead and like,

organize on the local level and we’re like, I completely forgot about this, but we had a conversation about like, would my city, like, what would we, what would make it like a utopian type of like, what, if we could have anything, because we’re like, we can do that. We can make those changes. We can like help and like, make sure everyone has a place to sleep at night and a safe place to live. You know, we can do those kinds of things. So,

Rachel (31:04)

Really?

Julie Duffy Dillon (31:18)

I don’t remember why I brought her up, but I just wanted to say, like, I think if we can start where we live and then it can continue to build, you know, maybe we can expedite things, you know?

Rachel (31:26)

Absolutely.

And I think, I mean, I think that that’s right. Like the utopic visioning is all about like thinking this big picture. But like I said, like it’s daunting to then be like, okay, well, how do we get there? And I think to your point, it is working on small, tangible levels. I want to plug, we can put it in the show notes. There’s this group, I guess is the right word.

Julie Duffy Dillon (31:35)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Rachel (31:51)

slash podcast called 1 million experiments. ⁓ and they are basically like this resource where they’re collecting these kind of, system shifting projects that are happening on a micro level, but it’s basically this database. And I feel like it’s a really excellent, and the podcast then highlights different, like organizations and, and, and projects. And I think it’s a really great.

Julie Duffy Dillon (31:55)

Mmm.

nice. Yeah.

Ooh, I want to listen.

Coleen (she/her) (32:14)

Yeah,

that’s really interesting.

Rachel (32:19)

way to look and see what people across the country and the world are already doing and saying like, I could take that and adapt that to work in my context and kind of the like everything that’s going on at this micro level. And it helps to like broaden the picture of of like this is what we can work work towards everywhere.

Julie Duffy Dillon (32:33)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah. I love that. I love ideas, a community brainstorm. And ⁓ yeah. So how about we end? I want to read a part of the Find Your Food Voice book. And I’m hoping what it’ll do for the three of us is kind of help us know what are our individual next steps to help contribute to this and maybe then also for the listener to know what your next steps are. And so.

Rachel (32:45)

Yes. Yes, exactly.

Julie Duffy Dillon (33:08)

It’s in chapter three of Find Your Food Voice. I happen to have a copy right here. I have a few copies. I don’t know if you can see behind me, right there. There’s quite a few copies, but, and I need to put my reading glasses on. Excuse me. Hold on a second. 50, yes.

Rachel (33:16)

There’s quite a few there.

Coleen (she/her) (33:24)

I’m just gonna follow along, Julie.

I have mine here too.

Rachel (33:27)

I can see mine from across the room, but I’m not going to get up and go see it. Get it.

Julie Duffy Dillon (33:29)

Yeah, you don’t, no,

you rest. So in the book, in chapter three is the book, is a part of the book where you can start to imagine and paint the picture of what it’s like actually like to rely on your body to know what to eat. And, you know, we can’t tell you how to do that. Like that’s, it’s your body. like, it’s hard to know what life is like without diet culture, right? So.

Part of how I hope to help you paint a picture is through this guided imagery where you are given a magic wand. And it’s kind of bizarre, but it’s also like, we need to just think about magic, right? And so I’m gonna read a little bit about this part and I’m gonna start on page 60, but then I’m gonna skip to 62 at some point. But imagine meeting your magic wand and you instinctively wave it as one does with a magic wand.

And when you wave it, instantly there is a difference. You know this wand has been waiting for you to wave it like you did to show its magic. And by waving the wand, you see all the sparkles, the glitter float around you. As they swirl, part of the magic also washes around every human on this planet. All at once, you know everything has changed. Yet nothing on the surface appears different. The magic wand has erased the belief that certain bodies are better than others.

The white, cisgender, thin, able body is no longer the ideal. Rather, it is just alongside all the rest of the world’s body. While this may sound bananas, stay with me. Hold this new belief. You and the rest of the planet no longer value thinness or power, I should add now. And even shrouded synonyms such as muscular, healthy looking, fit, petite, or slim, all forms of body diversity.

age, race, ethnicity, height, weight, ability, and everything not named exist equally without different privileges. And after waving the magic wand, you take all this new knowing in while your body doesn’t change the way you relate to it does in an instant. Okay, so go to page 62 now, Coleen, since I know you’re reading along. I want to read the next section so then it can help us build this new die culture free world.

This magic wand has brought another new revelation. Eating is a tool for living and connecting. Food brings fuel as well as depth to each moment. How this richness is defined is based on your heritage, culture, preferences, and access. Food is no longer a tool for body manipulation or power. It just doesn’t work that way now. Bodies change with aging, yet food no longer has the power to change body size.

No matter how much or how little you eat, your body will do what is genetically programmed to do. Just with the rhythm of your heart, your body systems decide how to use each bite without you needing to worry about it. You know your body will use food in the way it needs. In this new system, that knowing is not good or bad, it just is. Holding these new truths, consider these important questions. Stay with each one as long as you need to let all of your unique messages come through.

With this knowing, how do you decide when to eat, when to stop eating, what food to bring into your home, how much food to put on your plate, to order food at a restaurant knowing that everyone else has also been affected the same way by the magic wand, what to put in your grocery cart, and what snacks to order at the movies? So listener, I encourage you to let yourself just

know, like freely just imagine what this could be like. And any closing words, Rachel and Coleen anything that you want to name for yourself or yeah.

Coleen (she/her) (37:19)

I think about my daughter primarily and how bringing her up is also an act of defiance and a way for us to kind of continue to think of this utopia. So I am doing my best as a parent to shift compliments from appearance, like, my gosh, you’re so cute, which is oftentimes the first thing that people say to me about her, which I’m like, okay, I do like that, but.

Julie Duffy Dillon (37:22)

Mmm.

Yeah, definitely.

Coleen (she/her) (37:47)

I feel like I also really want her to think about her essence. Like your laugh fills up the room. You seem at peace. Like thinking of other ways to encourage her and her own spirit versus like just her appearance.

Julie Duffy Dillon (37:55)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

One of my favorite things that someone told me or like some kind of like child development specialist, I heard her say once to a kid is like, look what you can do. It was just like a way to acknowledge something without talking about anything, you know, like body size or even ability or just like, just like, look what you could do. It could be like showing kindness or it could be like,

you use the spoon. I don’t know. It could be anything. Yeah.

Rachel (38:31)

I would just kind of to continue what Coleen was saying, like beyond just the individual people in the next generation that we’re impacting, kind of, well, I don’t have the ability to create a magic wand and I would welcome if someone did, but even knowing if we don’t have this magic wand to change things for us, the way we model.

Julie Duffy Dillon (38:50)

Mm-hmm.

Rachel (38:57)

our actions is basically that magic wand for future generations. And I think that that’s really beautiful and kind of ties back to the maybe this utopic world that we’re describing is not something that any of us are going to see in our lifetime, but that doesn’t mean it’s not worth working towards.

Julie Duffy Dillon (39:00)

Yes. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Especially if we are all interconnected like the three of us believe like we are creating it right now. So thank you team. This was lovely. I feel so warm and fuzzy now. Although I’m still having a hot flash. So the warm is not really that important, but the fuzziness, I feel lots of love. So thank you.

Rachel (39:37)

And happy new year, everyone.

Julie Duffy Dillon (39:39)

Oh yeah.

Happy 2026. Remember, we’re all connected. We can create this. Yes. Yes.

Rachel (39:45)

Let’s hope it’s better than 2025!

Coleen (she/her) (39:50)

Yes, I love ending with that.

Rachel (39:53)

Yes.

Julie Duffy Dillon (39:54)

Listener, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Coleen and Rachel, and we hope you enjoy the end of December and you have a very wonderful, happy start to 2026. Did you know 2026 marks 10 years of Find Your Food Voice? I can’t believe it’s been a whole 10 years. And we have been putting together the calendar for next year, and I’m so excited to bring you

what we have planned out, but we are going to be taking a break for the rest of December and we’ll be back in the beginning of January. I have an interview with Erin Phillips, who is a diabetes specialist and we answer a listener letter and then me and my team will be back for another chat in January as well.

Be sure to subscribe and follow along on Substack. You can get to the link to it in the show notes below.

and we appreciate you. Thank you if you’ve been with us for the last 10 years. And also thank you if this is the first episode. I appreciate you connecting with us and look forward to continuing that connection in 2026.

This episode of Find Your Food Voice was written, produced, and edited by me, Julie Duffy Dillon.

Rachel Popik and Coleen Bremner also contributed to writing this episode. Rachel helped me behind the scenes to get everything ready for you in social media and uploaded, and Coleen is always helping us behind the scenes.

If you would like to continue to support our work, joining the paid version of MySubstack is the best way to do it. And you can also purchase the Find Your Food Voicebook. Links to everything is below in the show notes. All right, I look forward to connecting with you next year. Bye for now.