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Hey there, welcome to episode 397 of the Find Your Food Voice podcast. I am Julie Duffy Dillon, registered dietitian and your host. Thank you for coming by in this impromptu episode where my team and I are unpacking the movie Wicked. We had to very quickly do this episode because we had to squeeze it in and we don’t like squeezing things in this time of year because we are wintering, we are slowing down.

 

but we really wanted to talk about this. We wanted to talk about it to help you appreciate this art from the movie Wicked and how it can help us see the diet industry impacting not only our individual selves, but the world around us. We really want to do this because having ways to better understand how that diet industry is impacting us and the world, think…

 

can help us better come together and take the lessons we get from watching Wicked to be able to continue to fight the diet industry because we know January is right around the corner. And not only is it January, but it’s also make America healthy again, shit that is just dripping all over our food choices and how we’re experiencing our body. What I mean by that, of course, is how

 

a new administration is coming into place in the United States and there’s gonna be even more of a push for the diet industry, but really like what’s behind the diet industry. And that’s what we talk about in this episode today. So let’s go ahead and get started.

 

Julie (02:46)

Welcome back. Before I invite my team to unpack this episode, I want to set the stage for you and me. So of course, we’re going to be talking about the movie Wicked. So if you haven’t seen it yet, you got to know there’s going to be spoilers because there’s no way to talk about what we’re wanting to talk about without spoiling the movie. So with that being said, I also want to share with you why I’m recording this episode.

 

So I’m assuming you’ve seen it. If you haven’t, you’ve at least listened to the song Defying Gravity and the movie version of it. And I’m on my Spotify account right now. And if you go to the five minute and four second mark, I actually try to play it and record a little bit, even though it’s illegal to do that. But whatever, I’m going to break some rules because I want to share this. But it wouldn’t work.

 

But at the five minute and four second mark, that’s the point where I knew I needed to record this episode. That’s the part in the song that’s, of course, if you’re a musical theater person, it’s the most famous part of the song where Elphaba actually says the word fly. So everyone deserves the chance to fly in her. Instead of singing it, she says it. And that’s the moment where I was.

 

feeling all the feels of the last 25 years, every moment that I’ve had maybe with you, if you are a client of mine, or someone I’ve talked to who’s experienced the evolution of being stuck in diet culture to seeing all of the strings, seeing the man behind the curtain that’s trying to control them and

 

just you can’t see it anymore. Like that moment has always felt, and I don’t mean this necessarily in a religious tone, it’s the only word I can think of. But that moment has always felt very sacred to me. It’s the moment, even right now talking about it, I’m getting goosebumps. It’s a moment that is just so powerful and I have, I just honor that moment. I hold space in that moment and it’s.

 

It’s a really important moment for you. If you’ve experienced it, I know you know what I mean. If you haven’t experienced it, it’s gonna be really important. And when I was watching the last few minutes of act one of Wicked, I was hoping you were seeing it too. And I was hoping it was fueling your food voice journey of.

 

of reconnecting to your instincts to how you need to take care of yourself as it relates to food and your body and movement. And I hope it fuels you to be able to fly because now you have to. And we’re gonna unpack many different parts of this movie, but one thing that I want you to know, you’re not alone because we’re there with you. Okay.

 

Let’s go ahead and get this episode started. I’m gonna invite my team to join us now.

 

Julie (06:11)

Hey there team, how’s it going?

 

Rachel (06:13)

Hi.

 

Coleen (06:13)

Bye!

 

Julie (06:14)

Thanks for making time to talk about this really, really, really important thing.

 

Coleen (06:16)

Yeah.

 

Rachel (06:19)

I will never not want to talk about this thing.

 

Coleen (06:19)

Yes, my gosh. Yeah, that’s really important.

 

Julie (06:24)

Yeah, this is something that’s been in my head ever since I saw the last three minutes of Wicked. I’ve wanted to have this conversation with the two of you. So let me ask you the question, because I know we’re on a time crunch because we squeezed this meeting in. Here’s the question. How did the Wicked movie remind you of diets slash diet industry slash dieting experiences, whatever it means to you?

 

Coleen (06:39)

Ha ha ha

 

Julie (06:50)

But how did the Wicked movie remind you of those things? And whoever wants to go first, just jump in.

 

Rachel (06:56)

calling you, you start.

 

Coleen (06:58)

Okay, my gosh, where do I even begin? I was gonna say, I have seen this movie twice now, it’s, first of all, I think the best film adaption of a musical, hands down, in my lifetime. So I’ll just start by saying that. And yeah, like my whole lifetime. And…

 

Julie (07:00)

our musical theater representation.

 

Rachel (07:02)

Yeah.

 

Julie (07:14)

And you’re young, so if you’re thinking your lifetime.

 

Yeah, yeah.

 

Coleen (07:21)

It’s so wild that you asked this question, Julie, because I think one of the main things I noticed was those who benefit from the systems that are put into place. And that is a huge parallel in the film as well as the diet culture industry. When we look at the people that benefit from diet culture, it’s oftentimes, you know, cis, white, hetero individuals.

 

who are able to benefit. So a lot of these systems that are put into place are, as we’ve talked about before, rooted in racism and inequality, inequity. And so when you look at Oz and you look at what the wizard is doing and in trying to turn this whole group of people against Alphaba just because she wants to stand up for what’s right and be different.

 

It’s just so many parallels. It’s so good. I’m reeling because there’s so many things I want to communicate. also just if you’ve ever lived in a body that’s different and you watch this film, whatever the experience may be that you’ve had, you probably can find some parallels to some of your experience with Alpha Buzz.

 

Julie (08:13)

Mm-hmm.

 

you

 

Coleen (08:32)

And that was something too I noticed throughout hers as being green, right? But for me living in a fat body, it’s being fat and being treated differently for that. And it’s just, it’s so good. And then what I wasn’t expecting or some of the feelings I had around Glinda as well, because we have a lot of empathy for Glinda too as she’s trying to navigate and figure out her own path.

 

Julie (08:37)

Mm-hmm.

 

Coleen (09:00)

and I just thought about, you know, how many times I’ve tried to diet in my past to fit in or to, fit in with the social norms or structures. And so I had a lot of empathy for Glinda too. It was just, so it’s so good. So I’ll leave, I’ll leave my answer there cause I could go on and on.

 

Julie (09:05)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

 

Rachel (09:06)

Mm-hmm.

 

Julie (09:18)

Yes, well, and you mentioned a few things. I think it’d be important for us to just say it in case people haven’t connected to it.

 

Rachel (09:19)

Yeah.

 

Julie (09:24)

What a process system does Oz represent? Which one would you say that is? Or do you not take it as literal as I am right now?

 

Coleen (09:32)

no, I think it’s literal.

 

Julie (09:33)

Yeah.

 

I was thinking of it like that’s white supremacy. Like that’s, that’s the like, the one that is coordinating everything else, which the diet industry is a part of, right? Is that what you all were thinking too? Okay, okay, I just want to make sure. Well, I just want to make sure.

 

Coleen (09:37)

Mm-hmm.

 

Rachel (09:38)

Mm-hmm.

 

Coleen (09:41)

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Thank you for naming it, Julie, because yeah, I don’t think I was clear in my, but yes.

 

Rachel (09:52)

Yeah, I think it’s important to me.

 

Julie (09:52)

Well, I think, yeah, and I think maybe not everyone’s connecting that and that’s okay, but something that maybe we can say that if other podcasters are talking about wicked and talking about white supremacy within it, I think it’s important to name something that not everyone does is how diet industry comes from that. How, and that’s something the three of us.

 

Rachel (10:14)

Mm-hmm.

 

Julie (10:16)

talk a lot about on our own, you know, and just our own little chit chat. But then also, like, it’s something that we’ve really appreciated. But I don’t know if anyone who’s trying to move away from dieting has connected those dots. And that’s what I, I was really sobbing watching that first or the last few minutes of this movie. What I just couldn’t stop thinking about was like, this is just so beautifully like showing this moment where in some people have a choice and some people will not.

 

have a choice to ignore it or look away. Anyway, so I just wanted to say that. Rachel, what were your thoughts?

 

Rachel (10:49)

I mean, I echo everything that Colleen said. The other thing I wanna bring up that really stood out for me, like while watching the movie, but also and watching it the second time and then since then is just the, you know, when you think about the propaganda of diet culture and the propaganda that the people in Oz are experiencing and so bought into so quickly. Like you see the like super quick shift of

 

Julie (10:52)

Yes.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Rachel (11:16)

you know, them making the announcement, Elphaba is evil, she’s bad, like we want, we’re out to get her, we’re out to kill her. And everyone just instantly, like without question, just like, yes, I’m on board with that. I’m not gonna question it, I’m just on board with it. And it felt very reminiscent of the propaganda of, I mean, all of these oppressive systems, but diet culture as well, just.

 

Julie (11:19)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Right?

 

Rachel (11:42)

People don’t question it, that’s what they’re told and they just accept it and go along with it.

 

Julie (11:45)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, there’s so many conditions that are so close, especially as a white person, there’s so many conditions that I experience that they’re so close to me that I don’t see them anymore. And yeah, like they have a great PR team, basically, that is swift to save it as soon as possible. Yeah, seeing that in action was, it just seemed so obvious and…

 

Rachel (11:56)

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

Julie (12:08)

But yeah, I’m hoping people are also weaving in how the diet industry works just like that. You know, yeah.

 

Coleen (12:16)

And the same is true of like the influence that Glinda had in the Oz Dust ballroom too, right? She was able to not other Elphaba and kind of pull her into a circle by, you know, no spoilers, but like doing this little dance with her and like showing her that it was okay to do something different and imagine the type of influence and power.

 

Rachel (12:23)

Mm-hmm.

 

Julie (12:25)

Yes, yes.

 

Well, we can spoil.

 

Rachel (12:37)

Mm-hmm.

 

Julie (12:42)

Mm-hmm.

 

Coleen (12:42)

people have to pull people into their spaces and make them feel welcome. And what you choose to do with it is really important. And I love that too, because like you said, Rachel, at the end it’s like, or the end of part one, it’s like they just jump on board. But in that moment in the Osdust ballroom, Glinda chose not to jump on board and to pull her into her space.

 

Rachel (12:43)

Mm-hmm.

 

Julie (12:47)

Mm-hmm.

 

Rachel (12:51)

Yeah.

 

Julie (12:56)

Yes.

 

Mm hmm. Yeah, it reminds me of like how,

 

the phrase of being like, we’re unlimited when we’re working together. And then at the end when Elphaba is singing Defying Gravity and basically realizing like, she’s gonna be by herself now. And to think about

 

Coleen (13:19)

Yeah.

 

Julie (13:22)

if we did this together, think about how amazing this would be to like make things better. But then yeah, Glinda’s like, yeah, peace out, good luck. I’m staying behind. And of course my musical theater child has told me that Act Two is, know, there’s some revolution that I don’t know about because

 

Coleen (13:47)

Mm-hmm.

 

Julie (13:50)

I didn’t go see this musical with my family when they’ve gone in the past. So I’m on the edge of my seat. Anyway, before we wrap up, because this was, you know, again, a quick check-in. Anything else we need to name that we haven’t named yet? To get off your chest.

 

Coleen (14:10)

My head is reeling.

 

Rachel (14:11)

I I think I’m trying really hard not to bring in parts two stuff. So I think that next year we can have a follow-up conversation. And I think things become that much clearer and more obvious.

 

Julie (14:11)

Yeah

 

Coleen (14:17)

Yeah.

 

Julie (14:20)

Uuuhhhh

 

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Well, as someone who doesn’t know what happens in Act Two besides what my child told me, I was like, wait, that’s too many spoilers. Don’t tell me anything else. I’m seeing myself in Glinda, like the times that I’ve chosen not to do the right thing, even if it was harder. And I know that Act Two includes some things that she…

 

Rachel (14:28)

the next time we have this chat. So I’m very excited for that.

 

you

 

Julie (14:52)

chooses some different options. But the other thing I want to say too is like, when I was watching this movie, there were so many times where it reminded me of sitting with clients, doing the work of like, starting to see how diet the diet industry harmed them in their relationship with food. And everyone seemed to have a moment when it just kind of all came into place. And they could see everything they could see all the like,

 

the person controlling the puppet strings and the person behind the curtain. And once a person got to that place, there was no going back. They’re like, yeah, I can’t unsee this now. And yeah, that’s what I hope people get from this is there are all these things that are so powerful that make it seem like they’re taking care of us and it’s improving our health. But it’s really not about health. It’s about controlling us.

 

be like Elphaba or I don’t know. And I do think the more we can stick together, the more we can fix this, this place we’re living in and not ourselves. So, all right. Well, if that’s all for today, thanks for jumping in and chiming in and helping, you know, just satisfy this urge to just to unpack Wicked and how it relates to dieting. So have a great

 

Rachel (15:45)

Yeah.

 

Coleen (15:46)

No.

 

Rachel (16:02)

Of course.

 

Julie (16:10)

Great day.

 

Julie (16:11)

So there you have it. I hope you enjoyed my conversation, this kind of fly by the seat of our pants conversation about how Wicked connected our experiences with dieting and the diet industry. What do you think? Did you have any of these kind of connections, aha moments when you were watching the movie or did our conversation bring to light anything that you hadn’t considered? We’re gonna be talking about this.

 

over in my email newsletter, I’m going to be sending out an email when this episode drops.

 

join my email list so you can let me know, you know, whenever I send an email out,

 

you just hit reply and you can actually just talk to me. I’m the only one that’s looking at this email. So shoot me an email after you get this email about Wicked and let me know what you think. Have you connected some dots that we haven’t talked about? What do you, how are you going to use this as you are navigating the diet industry and as you are noticing all the strings? And keep one thing in mind.

 

One thing that Wicked showed us and something that my team and I want you to know is you are not alone. You don’t have to do this alone. We are there with you. We can’t go back to sleep like Elphaba. We cannot unsee this. So we are with you every step of the way. All right. That’s all for now. I look forward to being back in your ears next week for another episode of Find Your Food Voice. Until then.

 

Take care.