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Julie: Hey there, welcome to episode 396 of the Find Your Food Voice podcast. I am Julie Duffy Dillon and you are in for a treat today. I’m having a conversation with Coleen Bremner and Rachel Popik and we are talking about that winter arc. Have you heard about it? We’ve heard about it and we have an alternative that we encourage you to explore before you really dive deep into that winter arc and it’s called wintering. It’s a concept that as a team we have been invested in over the last few years. And so in this episode, we share our reaction to the winter arc, why it’s problematic, and then our different ways of filling our cup in the winter time. So let’s get to it.

Julie: Hello team and welcome back listener. We’re glad you’re here. Are you ready to unpack this, this shithole?

Coleen: my gosh.

Rachel: always.

Coleen: Yeah, I’m wearing my Slay the Patriarchy sweatshirt today in honor of us recording. It’s about… yes.

Julie: Look at this. I mean, this is basically my uniform, you know?

Coleen: Julie Sweatshirt says legalize, emotionalize, what else did it say? Legalize emotional eating. I was like legalize, emotional eating. Yes, I love it.

Julie: Legalize emotional eating. Yes. My winter of 2023 was sponsored by this sweatshirt. This is basically all I wore. So I’m continuing it in 2024. Are you in something cozy, Rachel too?

Rachel: nothing fancy, just a black sweatshirt. Yeah. It’s not, not nearly as, as exciting, but you know.

Julie: There you go. That works too.

Coleen: But it’s kind of, you know, around our discussion today, we’re all in like, sweatery, cozy things. you know, something we’ve been talking about lately has been this idea of wintering. And I think we all feel pretty similarly on it, but there is some interesting stuff coming up around the anti wintering. So I’d love to hear more about that.

Julie: Yeah, this concept was brought to us by Rachel. And Rachel, how did you find it? Do you remember how you found the winter arc?

Rachel: I think it was a TikTok. Of course it was on TikTok. Everything is on TikTok. I think it started as a TikTok trend. But I think essentially the idea is there’s no need to wait until January to start your weight loss, quote unquote, getting healthy New Year’s resolutions started in the winter, weeks ahead of time while you’re isolated and so that way, you know, when you kind of present yourself come springtime, you’re a new you, essentially.

Julie: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yuck. Well, and I remember you mentioned something about a Reddit thread. So I think it may be interesting to read a few things on this Reddit thread. And we could put a link to it if you wanna be so bold listener and look at this Reddit thread. I don’t know, is this where it originated or is this just someone who really took the time to plan out a good list?

Coleen: I’m so excited to hear some of these things.

Rachel: Yeah, unfortunately there are a lot of Reddit threads related to people’s Winter Arc goals, rules, plans. But when I was pulling up a definition to prep for the episode, the first thing that came up was this Reddit thread, get disciplined. And some of the fun things on this person’s list. which their winter arc interestingly started October 1st. So that’s a fall arc. But really healthy things such as eat at least one meal a day. Yeah, one or maybe three whole meals and some snacks. Make the most of your time by socializing while doing things like working out at the gym. Also sleeping a whole six hours a night sleep at least six hours. And you know, there’s something about the first two rules, you know, eat one meal a day and sleep at least six hours that in a way I’m like, yes, like if you are not getting that already, like, yeah, let’s start. Let’s just step one to just like getting enough of two of our basic needs, two of the five. Like getting yourself closer to like meeting your needs.

Julie: So yeah, get at least six hours, but you really need more. Get at least one meal, but you need more. But you know my favorite with this, and I say favorite, I say it tongue in cheek in a way, but it talks about no girls, reject all social events, and no porn, nothing that basically brings pleasure is what I’m hearing. And stay inside is also the unless you’re at the gym socializing. Only way to see people is at the gym. Is that correct?

Rachel : Yeah, that’s that’s essentially what I’m getting from this. I also interestingly, I mean, I am guilty of spending way too much time on TikTok and learning about winter arcing and Instagram and social media. But less than six hours a day of screen time, like that’s a lot of screen time. Yeah, yeah.

Julie: Yes. Is that what it says on there too? wow. Yeah. goodness.

Coleen: I feel like functioning too under this scarcity mindset cannot feel good. Like I just think about, mean, I’m a new mom. So I kind of know what it’s like to winter arc against my will. Like I like lost a lot of sleep and couldn’t nourish myself as well because I was juggling so many things at the beginning. And so even thinking about that, I…You know, I chose that in one way, obviously by having a child, but I wasn’t choosing those things like trying to figure out what it was like to raise this little human. And I got to tell you, I was not functioning at 100%. I was definitely functioning at about 20. So I can’t imagine choosing to do this during a time that feels so like should to me should feel so cozy and like calming and  Like even you reading those things out loud, Rachel gave me like PTSD from the first like months of raising my child.

Julie: Mm-hmm. Right, right. Yeah. And the thing about the winter arc that I’ve been connecting with is some like vintage diet culture memories. So I don’t think you all were alive in the 80s, but I mean, that was peak Ronald Reagan. And it was before the abundance of the 90s, right? Like the 90s brought just so much, so much abundance to more people. But Ronald Reagan era, that’s where And as I say this, I know these have existed for a long time, but that’s where so many people would leave at the end of the school year, disappear and come back the next year looking completely different. you know, I was a child during this time, but I can remember that happening often. And there’s so much about today’s history that does feel familiar to me from the 70s and 80s. And So I also like, yeah, makes sense that this winter arc shit is happening, that we are focusing so much on ourselves and trying to improve ourselves when the world is like crumbling around us. So basically, we miss it, you know, it seems so obvious to me that is this is a trend right now in this period of time to kind of distract us from

Julie: what is actually happening around us. And yeah, mean, nothing like some Ronald Reagan memories to wake me up to this happening again. Ugh.

Coleen: As a communication person too, I feel like I’m curious about the language choice of this because when I think of an arc, I think of a story arc, right? And I think like when I first heard this term just in general, I thought of it as something positive. Like I just in hearing the words winter arc, I was like, yes, I love a winter arc. Like in my mind, I was thinking, okay, this means like cozying down like. really leaning into the winter. And then Rachel started sharing some of the things and I was like, this is not what I thought it was. So I also feel like language is like a conscious, it was a conscious choice, which is interesting to me.

Julie:Well, yeah 100%. Yeah, because that’s the big lie from the diet industry, Is like focusing on yourself, eating less, keeping yourself productive, really trying to be independent and focusing on your behaviors because you can change them. Like that’s considered such a positive thing, right? Like, and the three of us, we are like, no, we’ve seen like…who I don’t think I just saw wicked. So we’ve seen who Oz is, you know, we don’t believe the shit anymore and we can’t unsee it. So it makes sense that people would like that that phrase would connect to you as like a positive thing and you have connected rest, taking care of yourself and like, what can you do to like experience abundance for yourself as a positive thing, but this is like the opposite, you know, but I think that’s one of the tough things to kind of break into folks who haven’t seen the harm of the diet industry is like they see it as such a positive thing. And I don’t know. Yeah, I see it as like that’s the destruction of what’s that’s what’s going to keep us from actually being able to get through the next trying time. the with the winter arc.

Julie: Are there any other notes for it? Anything else that we hate about it?

Rachel: I mean,It feels in some ways I’m drawing parallels to just capitalism in general and like late stage capitalism, but it feels like, you know, we have New Year’s resolutions and that’s a set thing, but we can’t just have that anymore. Like it needs to be a drawn out thing we need to add. You know, it’s no longer like Black Friday as a day, it’s Black Friday as three weeks leading up.

to it and it’s just, feels very capitalistic and it’s. drawing out of these periods of, you know, drastic change and punishing ourselves and all of

Julie: Yeah, and the thing that I always think about with eating disorders or disordered eating is they have some commonalities to them that are showing up in the winter arc. Shame. I would appreciate if someone’s like, I’m to go in hiding and not socialize because I don’t like how my body looks. There’s a component of shame with that. anyone I’ve ever talked to with an eating disorder, there’s a lot of shame there. And there’s also this experience of isolation, of wanting to hide and not feeling good enough, which again, when arc, it’s all there. And then the overemphasis, like the power on food and movement. So for some people, this may just be a time period, but for other people, this could be like the gateway to them experiencing an eating disorder, which is this like lifelong experience for many people. So

Julie : If you maybe were the first time people are hearing of a winter arc, maybe we can just give you the heads up that hey, don’t don’t take the bait. You know, this is just another trap. Yeah. Yeah.

Coleen: Yeah. And we’re meant to experience joy and pleasure in food and in relationships. And I think that something that’s tricky for me to get past is like, sounds so lonely. And I’m someone who thrives with being, you know, connected to others. And I just feel like in hearing about all these things, like I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy. I don’t know.

Julie: Yes, yes. It does sound so lonely. Yeah.

Coleen: Well, on a different note then, and kind of talking about how we winter, I would love to chat a little bit about wintering, which is something I think that Yelly talked about, I don’t know when it was, maybe a couple of years ago. Yelly, used to work here, who we adore and miss deeply talked about this concept and I would love to hear each of your definitions of like what wintering looks like for you. It’s kind of the opposite of the winter art.

Julie: Rachel, do you want to go first?

Rachel: Yeah, sure. So wintering to me, at least how I understand it, is kind of along the veins of listening to the kind of cyclical cycles of life and of the seasons. So in the winter you think about, you know, traditionally, like, you know, animals slow down, they you know, put on extra weight to keep themselves warm for the winter plants, you know, stop growing and go to sleep. Everything just kind of slows down, becomes a lot quieter, becomes sleepier. And when I started listening to my body more after, you know, healing from having disordered eating my whole life, I really caught on to the fact that like my body wants those same things. I feel a lot sleepier in the winter. I feel a draw to just moving slower, doing less. And so for me, that looks like, you know, taking naps and having warm, cozy meals and, you know, snuggling up on the couch and cuddling, things like that. But it’s interesting that this year, so coincidentally, I’ve just been in the past few weeks, definitely overworking myself and I can feel the effects on it and it feels very antithetical to what I want to be. But yesterday, I was complaining to someone that I was tired and they responded, which I’d be curious both of your thoughts on this. They asked the question. Well, are you really adulting correctly if you aren’t tired all the time? Which may be really sad that that’s the culture that we live in to kind of glorify and uplift the, you know, the grind culture, the being productive all the time, the always being tired as almost a marker of adulting correctly or success.

Rachel: So yeah, I just wanna throw that out there as something I was asked yesterday and what your thoughts are.

Julie: I wonder if that person was Gen X like me, because that seems like a very Gen X and older kind of experience, or just like foundation that we have with how we experience life is that like, yeah, if you’re not exhausted and very busy all the time, then you must be the opposite, lazy and not doing whatever. And that’s what millennials have taught me is that Why are you hurting all the time? Why not find a way to allow for space and abundance? And yeah, you may not have the same amount of money in your bank account, but I think that’s a part of it too is that we shouldn’t have to keep working and just try to take more power. What if we instead shared the power? had enough for everyone. And I think that’s just like a very foundational difference with my peers. And it’s horrible. It’s horrible that we have that as like, this is the moral high ground to be like that. And I know for me, that work hard, play hard kind of philosophy that’s just so ingrained in Gen X, it literally causes a migraine for me. And then I have to lay in bed in the dark. with all the like blinds drawn and fan on because I need to be the right temperature, you know, I can’t do anything then. So it literally like makes my body shut down if I follow those those kind of rules. But yeah, am I am I saw some nods? Like is that a more like was it was it someone who was more my age that said that? Yeah. Okay. That tracks.

Coleen: Yeah, I feel like my reaction to that right now is I, I feel like a little bit I’m struggling to figure out what wintering looks like for me this year with having such a big life change. and I think it looks a little bit different for me. I, I’m doing a lot of check-ins with myself about if I feel like my cup is full and that’s really, I asked myself in the morning and in the afternoon and in the evening. And if I start to feel like my cup is empty, I ask myself, okay, what’s going to make me feel a little bit better about X, Y, Z? And oftentimes I feel like in parenthood, it is tied to getting things done around the house for some reason. It’s like, okay, feel like I feel like personally, cannot relax if the clothes aren’t put away, if the dishes aren’t done, like all of these things. I think for me, sometimes it’s that I need to actually just let those things go in the moment. And that looks different for me this year, because before I don’t think I could do that. And now I’m like, no, I, what I really want to do is sit down on the floor and play with my child. Like that’s what I want to do for the next 45 minutes. I want to see her experience the world. I want to read to her. want, so I think that it’s just looking very different and like to what that comment was or speaking to that in particular, I think that like, obviously adulting looks different for everybody. And I think figuring out what fills your cup, I feel like that’s honestly a better question. Like, are you even adulting if you’re not figuring out what fills your cup? Like maybe reframing or rephrasing that might feel a little more comfortable or a little ask yourself to check in with yourself a little bit more.

Julie: Mm-hmm. I love that so much. That’s so great. Yeah. And it’s gonna take some time, but that’s where the younger generations are helping my generation to be able to move into, you know, the midlife and beyond into a place of being more connected and less distracted and yeah, finding more pleasure. that just is such a shitty thing to say though, but I have a feeling, yeah. So many people would say the same thing. And I think for me and motherhood, I think about the earlier times when my kids were really little and how moms would bond over who was like the most busy and distracted and exhausted and also still like doing all the things, like doing all the crafts perfectly, like having Pinterest pretty parenting styles. Yeah, that was hard to not get drawn into and to reject. But one thing that I’ve learned about myself in therapy, I had this experience working with the same therapist for like five or six years. And there’s so much that you can gather about yourself working with the same person for a number of cycles, you know? And something that I started to really appreciate was that January, February, and March were always really hard months for me. I seem to always have, since I was a child, like have like a depressive episode. By February, I was just like not able to get out of bed and lots of crying. And as I got older, and I started working with this therapist when I was in my early 30s probably.

I started to notice by November, I was starting to get anxious because of the January, February, March shithole. And when I went through a couple of cycles of this with a therapist and it was starting to get closer to November again, I was like, I’m starting to feel anxious. And she was like, Julie, if like January, February, March, like that experience is your body telling you that it needed you to rest a long time ago? Like what if that’s

Julie: what maybe maybe it’s like some kind of communication from your body that it’s just like over, you’re overdone, you’ve over exerted yourself. That’s, that’s, that’s interesting. Plus, she was like, you’re she’s using my like, tools that I use in my with my clients on myself. And I was like, Well, there you go. Well, playing therapists. And so that season, I was like, I’m going to really focus on November and December to rest. I’m like, it’s going to be a lot of saying no to things and socialize, but not take on like, I’m not going to do the crafts for the third grade classroom Christmas project, know, like stuff like that. And lo and behold, January, February, March, we’re so much better. Like, and so every year that I get into this November, December zone, I’m trying to like, just honor the, this is just the cycle my body needs. And that’s how, you mentioned Yeli Cruz at the top of our conversation. that’s how Yeli and I started talking about it because I said, I just noticed I need to slow down production on the podcast in November and December because it helps me not get to a depressive episode. And she’s like, yeah, that’s wintering. Like she told me about the book by Catherine May. so since then, we’ve done a yearly episode on wintering. And maybe, the listener, don’t experience like a depressive episode on this in the second half of winter. But and maybe I know I’ve had times of depression, anxiety that have nothing to do with my connection to rest. And there are times for me that that’s what happens when I just don’t take enough time just to, yeah, unwind and have boundaries. So, so yeah, I don’t know if y’all can relate to that. But that’s certainly what I’ve learned over the years about myself.

Coleen: I think that’s a great segue into kind of putting a bow on this episode. What are ways that you all fill your cup in the winter? Rachel?

Julie: I love that by the way, that’s going to be my new way to like just bring it up like, okay, how full is my cup today? And then check in throughout the day. I think that in itself is a wonderful wintering advice. But yeah, Rachel, I’m sorry for interrupting you.

Rachel: No, that’s okay. It gave me moment to think, so that was appreciated. I think literally filling my cup with soup is honestly a big one for me. I am pretty good at making soup. Honestly, I’ve found recently that I have really been enjoying just drinking bone broth, like making…

Coleen: Yes. Yum.

Julie: Ooh, I bet you’re good at making soup too.

Coleen (24:35)

Hmm.

Rachel: homemade bone broth and drinking that. I, there’s something about that that’s so like feels warm and nourishing that it really does fill my cup literally and figuratively. But I also think for me, really embracing nature and the stillness of nature at this time of year really does the same. I, I’m someone who enjoys the cold, so I don’t mind being outside, but really I love going out into the woods and being just quiet with nature and that really does fit for me as well.

Coleen: I love those, Rachel.

Julie: that’s nice. Yes, and I would imagine you have like kick ass soups and bone broth that you make yourself.

Rachel: Yeah, I do, and just a little plug for my weekly newsletter. I just wrote it, and this Sunday’s newsletter is all about soups. you know.

Coleen: my gosh, I am so excited. get Rachel’s newsletter and let me tell you, if you’re not signed up, you are missing out on some clutch recipes.

Julie: well, so same. Yeah, they are. They’re really good recipes. Yes. Well, you are the one that does the show notes, so put a link to it in there, OK?

Rachel: Yep, we’ve got soups to look forward. Thanks.

Julie: something that I love so much about this time now, and my kids are starting to tell me that this is what their favorite memories are too, is like just Being inside, warm and cozy, I make sure I have extra blankets around the house. it’s a lot of textures and lighting. I don’t know what that means. But Christmas tree has warm, kind of like white lights. And so it just like the lamps in the living room. like, I just like the lighting to be soft and cozy. having coloring books and paints and board games all kind of under my table in the like main area where we all hang out so then we can just easily pull them out. And yeah, we’ll have the TV on at the same time, you know, probably watching problematic Seinfeld or something like that. But that is our comfort show at my house. So that’s one of the things and yeah, I do like bone broth. don’t, know, you know, I’m not the big cook. So I probably would just buy some. And the thing I like about

Julie: that idea is I love hot tea, but I don’t really enjoy sweet kind of tea. And there’s only so much peppermint and black black teas that I enjoy. I kind of get sick of it. So that’s kind of a nice different warm beverage. So I like that too. And then the only other thing is, of course, my walks with Doug. love, the walks become even slower in the wintertime.And it’s super bundled up and almost kind of ridiculous without how much I have on to stay warm. But my neighborhood I live in, I probably have mentioned it before, but the neighborhood I live in has those big Christmas balls. Have you seen those before? Like they’re like lit up Christmas balls. They’re made out of chicken wire and people put lights around them. Your faces are telling me no, that you’ve never heard of those.

Rachel: I’ve, well, you’ve explained them before, but I’ve never actually seen them.

Julie: Yeah. They’re amazing. And it’s impossible to really capture them on camera, but there’s thousands and thousands of these in the neighborhood I live in. And all the neighborhoods in my town have parks. The person who donated the land said every neighborhood needed a park. So even the parks have them. And they’re like 100-year-old oak trees. So they’re really tall trees. And they’re filled with them. So they’re super magical. I like taking night walks and just strolling with Doug. it’s really, I don’t know. Again, it’s like lighting and warmth is what I think for wintering and napping. I didn’t mention the napping, but napping ends up being key. And have you all ever heard that, I’m sure you heard the phrase, like the midnight oil, like burning the midnight oil and how that came from the concept of two sleeps, like. when before we had like electricity and all that, used to sleep so much more in the winter and people had two sleeps. Like they go to bed when the sun went down and then woke up in the middle of the night, put on some candles, probably had another meal, probably had some sex or something. I did something and then went back to bed. again, yeah. I mean, so that’s, I think we need to bring that back, right? So anyway.

Rachel: Honestly sounds great.

Julie: So yeah, that’s my long planned out wintering. And Coleen, I think you shared a little bit, but I can’t remember if you shared all of your wintering. Okay.

Coleen: Yeah, I did. shared a few things. think mine is really connection with others. That’s really how I fill my cup. whether that be with my family or with friends, I really find comfort in being with others, especially around this like wintery time. Usually I volunteer in December as a way of just giving back and I try to volunteer year round, but time is has been a little more scarce this year, but we try to make it a habit as a family to do something around this time in our community. And I really feel like that really fills my cup in a way that kind of carries me on through the next year. so, yeah, I really enjoy that. And it’s going to look different this year. I’m curious to touch base again in January and let you know what December looked like for me. So, yeah.

Julie: Yes, maybe your wintering this year includes permission for having it different in this season, you know, and maybe it’ll be changing around. So, you all are wonderful. I feel like so connected and I feel like this has been like the anti venom of the winter arc. You know, it feels like abundant and community connection and so.

Julie: So there you have it. I hope you enjoyed this episode discussing wintering instead of that crappy winter arc with me and the team. This is our last team conversation for 2024, but I will be back with some mini session episodes for the last few weeks of 2024 to help you get through. And we are already planning 2025. We have so many. things in store that we’re really excited to share with you some big projects that we’ve been working on. And yeah, thank you for joining us in 2024. And thank you for sticking with us as we go to. So before I go, hit subscribe or follow and I will be back in your ears next week. But until then, take care.