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Intro music: Bags are packed, are you ready to go?…This time tomorrow we’ll be on the road…riding with you into sunnier days…I wouldn’t want it any other way. 

Julie: It’s time to name the neglect from typical food advice. Welcome to the Find Your Food Voice podcast, hosted by me, Julie Duffy Dillon. I’m a registered dietitian with 20 years of experience partnering with folks just like you on their food peace journey. What have we learned? Well, cookie cutter approaches exclude too many people, and you don’t need to be fixed. It’s not you. It’s not me. It’s all of us. Only together we can start a movement and fix diet culture. And we will. Let’s begin with now.

Transition music: I want to see how the world turns round…Let’s go adventure in the deep blue sea…home is with you wherever that may be…home is with you wherever that may be.

Julie: Hi and welcome to episode 337 of the Find Your Food Voice Podcast. I am Julie Duffy Dillon, your host and registered dietician and am looking forward to this conversation that I’m going to have with Coleen Bremner. I’m gonna be jumping on the phone with her in just a second, but just to prepare you for this episode, in July while we were on hiatus from the podcast, we, my Find Your Food Voice team, we were lighting up our text thread as we heard the news alongside of you about Lisa Marie Presley dying and as we learned a few days after her death, is her cause of death was because of complications from her weight loss surgery. So I wanna give a content warning, of course, with this topic. And talking about weight loss surgery, of course, there’s gonna be some topics about, um, anti fat bias, about eating disorders and things that are just involved with that. So take care of yourself and decide what’s best for you if you’re gonna listen to this episode or not. But what Coleen and I are wanting to unpack is just the things that we don’t hear a lot about when it comes to the risks that come from weight loss surgery. So I am really glad that Coleen picked this topic. I think it’s one that we don’t hear enough about. I think we only hear about the positives and whenever negative things happen, they’re minimized as very, very rare, which in reality they’re not and also that they’re worth the risk, which again are not worth the risk. 

Julie: So I will be getting to, um, Coleen’s Diet Culture IRL in just a minute. But I wanted to first give you an update on the Find Your Food Voice book. So the Find Your Food Voice book is coming along. And, uh, let’s see, I started writing it about almost a month ago from today was when I started and I’m officially 11,197words in plus another 1600 esque  because I haven’t done the edition yet for this week, so I’m over the 12,000 word mark. Super excited. I’m basically working on chapter two and three. At the same time, I’m kind of going back and forth and it’s the first time I’m starting to experience some more, I don’t know, I think like, self doubt as I’m writing. And luckily so far as I experience the self doubt, it seems to be when I’m not at the computer typing away. But once I do sit down to type, I, the words just come. And part of why that happens is I have been doing my writing, I think like 95% of the time, if not 100%, I have been doing the writing live on TikTok and then also in the Find Your Food Voice book community. And if those of you who are in the book community, I think you are the reason why I’m able to like squash that self doubt and just write. Um What we’re doing is for 45 minutes, we’re hanging out together kind of coworking and we’re muted. And then for a 15 minute break, we just chat and connecting with you has been so wonderful. And again, I think it’s helping me as I am writing. So if you would like to join me, I would love that. Again, you can do that for free on TikTok. And if you want to be part of the conversation during the break. Um and also support me, it’s just $5 a month. It’s kind of like buy me a cup of coffee and um you can get to all the details at julieduffydillon.com/book. All right. Enough of all of that, we’re gonna get to Coleen’s Diet Culture IRL, but we’re gonna have a very quick break and we’ll be right back. 

Coleen: Welcome to the beginning moments of fall, where the leaves are changing, the weather’s getting cooler and we head right back into a new season of Diet Culture IRL. Please take care of yourself and step away when you need to while listening. We know some of the topics we discuss here can bring up a lot for you and want you to care for yourself exactly how you need to. Back in July this year Lisa Marie Presley, the only child of Elvis passed away due to a bowel obstruction. However, in a record moment in news media outlets actually reported why this happened, and the result may shock you.  It was due to weight-loss surgery she underwent several years prior. Weight loss surgery can sometimes create adhesions (scar tissue) that form after surgery causing small bowel obstruction. Her medical examiner’s report noted, “This is a known long-term complication of this type of surgery.” I wanted to discuss this in Diet Culture IRL because so many are affected by the pressure to lose weight, so much so that people are convinced to get life altering surgeries to shrink themselves, that in turn, can cause irreversible harm. Just days after reading this article on Lisa Marie I was driving to work and saw a billboard on my morning commute for bariatric surgery. Explaining anyone could go in for a consult and get an estimate to quote change their life today. It truly breaks my heart to think people see that billboard everyday and consider weight loss surgery as a path they need to take to fit into our society. So, while Julie and I discuss this in just a moment, we also want to hear from you, let us know what you think, reach out to us at info@julieduffydillon.com and let us know. 

Julie: Alight, Coleen, where do we get started? 

Coleen: Where to begin with all of this? 

Julie: There’s a lot to unpack and of course, this happened when we were on our little podcast sabbatical. But I remember us like talking about it a little bit and our dream team like thread um just being like WTF, oh my gosh, I can’t believe this happened. What do you remember if anything like thinking when you saw the headlines? 

Coleen: Well, I just felt really sad, like firstly, like I think any like death of someone in the news is like, it’s just always sad and you know, when you are someone that’s experienced grief in the past, like, it brings up a lot of those feelings. Um, but then to like, you know, go beyond the headline and start reading, uh, like some of the reasoning or like, you know what the medical examiner said, I was like, shocked. Um, because this was new information for me, I did not know that, um, like weight loss surgery could have this effect. So then I started going down this other rabbit hole of like just what some of the effects from weight loss surgery can be long term for someone and I was like, horrified. Yeah. 

Julie: So that is so interesting that you didn’t, you didn’t have an awareness as someone who’s not like a health care provider, um You didn’t know that this was a possibility and I forget because, you know, as a dietician, one of the things that we get to do is we really get to like, get into the nitty gritty of people’s like day to day experiences, moment to moment just because we’re talking about food and people eat many times over the day. And, you know, I would get to know people over the years. So I would hear about these things either from my clients themselves or from someone that they knew, that they got to know from going through surgery together or something like that. So this was definitely on my radar. Um which that’s sad that that’s a difference, you know, that like health care providers, we know what’s happening. But the general public, those who can be affected by, um, you know, advertisements like you describe in your IRL, you know, like not even having that awareness, that, that’s a possibility. You know, that’s, that, that’s awful. I was really shocked about Lisa Marie Presley getting the surgery. I had no idea and it’s not like we’re bffs or anything. But, but I did before we started recording, of course, I did a Google search just like, why did Lisa Marie Presley get the surgery? But, you know, beyond experiencing the diet culture and wanting to be, remain smaller and relevant, um, in Hollywood, but I didn’t know if, you know Lisa Marie Presley ever made a statement like, oh, I have diabetes or something like that and that’s why I’m getting this. And what I found of course was this Page Six article which is, you know, it’s a Page Six, but it basically was talking about there. Um, her friends had no idea that she did this. Like no one knew which is another layer. I think that’s important for us to talk about too. 

Coleen: Yeah, I was shocked to hear that because I feel like there’s this like dichotomy or like this weird place that we’re in as, and I say we like the collective like fat community um as a fat person like where it’s like, it’s shameful for us to be in this body. And then if we do anything about, you know, we whatever is recommended, say this was recommended, hypothetically, um, then it’s shameful to do that. And it’s like, it’s literally lose, lose. Like there is no game in which we get to the whatever proverbial finish line and everyone’s like, yay, yay for you. Like, and I think that that’s, uh, that’s also super harmful. 

Julie: Yeah, the secrecy behind it. And I would imagine, you know, I’m not a medical doctor but the secrecy behind getting the procedure and then also not wanting to tell people around you if you are in pain or why you’re in pain, you know, recovery from gastric uh surgeries which, um, Marilyn Wann always, um, not always, but Marilyn Wann taught me, um, that this surgery can also be called called stomach amputation surgery. So I always like to mention that whenever we talk about this because really that’s what it is. Like a person has this healthy organ that’s fully functioning and there’s actually a surgery to make it maladaptive or to malabsorb and, um, to make it not work in the way that it’s supposed to and increase all the risk. But anyway, the secrecy of it has so much shame, of course, and like so much risk of more problems. Um, you know, just, I just think that’s fine 

Coleen: or because you’re afraid to, like, share with anyone that you might need additional care. Yes. 

Julie: Yeah, it’s, um, my heart breaks for her and for her family to, like, to have this kind of shock and, and then anybody else who’s been in the same place too that, like, um, I wonder who’s listening? Who’s like, yep. I had surgery and didn’t tell anybody. Um, and, you know, someone

Coleen: Or might be considering it in the moment now. Yeah. 

Julie: Yeah, because I, there’s certainly people that I’ve talked to who have gone to other countries to get the surgery done just because it’s more financially accessible. And, um, just that, that’s what ends up happening is people don’t really know why people go away. And something that I’ve learned from folks that I talked to after they’ve had surgery is how hard the recovery is because it is this major bowel surgery. And, and as I say that there are many different types of these surgeries and, um, you know, the type that, um, Lisa Marie had, I actually wrote it down, um, because, um, did I write it down? I thought I did well, I did not, um, but the type that she did have was, um, it was like the Roux-en-Y, but just a little different. And if, you know, if you’re not someone who’s aware of these different types of surgery, it’s like, basically she had, uh, almost a gastric sleeve where most of the stomach is removed, but then it’s attached in a different place and bypasses most of the inte, um, bypasses most of the intestines and um, it basically makes your body, again, malabsorb like just about every, not just about everything, but I mean, it ma absorbs like micronutrients. Um So that’s why I say just about everything, like when you malabsorb micronutrients, um, it is a very painful experience because, um, a lot of these micronutrients are B vitamins. Um, and it’s something that’ll be exhausting and painful. And that is something that I think most people don’t talk about. But when I was looking through the reports on Lisa Marie’s death, of course, most of the reports, and I’ll put some links in the show notes but just know huge content warning with these because almost all of them were like, yes, this is, this happens, but it’s very rare and it’s not as um much of an issue as the issues of being in a higher weight body. Of course, they use different language than higher weight body. Um like basically minimizing the risk and maximizing risk of being in a higher weight body and making it seem so absolute that if you continue to be in a high weight body, you know, you’re gonna die basically. And so this is, it’s worth the risk. And all the articles I was reading were talking about how most of the time people don’t experience this kind of uh this being what um Lisa Marie Presley experienced with, um she had lots of adhesions in her GI track, which when you have adhesions and it’s like scar tissue that basically ends up being sticky, and it makes the walls kind of cave in and stick to each other. And so like it’s a blockage. Um And they were like, oh, this is such a rare occurrence most of the time people just experience and just, I put in my own quotes just experience malnutrition. Which to me was like, totally, totally classic fatphobia right there. Just malnutrition, like to minimize, not eating a lot and like, oh, it’s worth that. Um, and you know, honestly, the intention of the surgery is malnutrition. So, like, um, but people don’t talk about how that actually feels. Um, yeah, it, it’s something I always want to make sure people know about is firsthand accounts of surgery. But it’s hard to find that. I don’t know if you’ve ever, like, asked around or talked to people or looked on the internet, like, even like Reddit threads. I’m like, what is it like, post surgery? But you can’t find that many and a lot of surgery centers or places that, like have information sessions on, like this is what gastric bypass surgery is like. And this is what post surgery is like. They hand select the people to do these kind of conversations with their clients who have the outcomes that they want. And so people assume that that’s just the norm. 

Coleen: It’s like a limited sampling pool of people. 

Julie: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s because this is, um, I know we’ve talked about this in other IRLs, but like any kind of weight loss intervention, it has a high attrition rate. Like there’s lots of dropping out. And what’s different about gastric bypass surgery is that there’s, it takes longer for the, the attrition rate to happen, but it eventually has the same effect. Um, so when people, like, go to their doctor for the first six months after surgery, which is six months is kind of the longest period that most of these centers require for people to go post surgery. But six months after people have lost a significant amount of weight, they’re super excited about it. But then if they do offer a follow up after that, people are not usually going back, and this is coming from just practice based experience that I have. This is not, this is not something that I have like my research that I’ve read on it, but just from what people have told me, they’re just too ashamed to go back as they’re regaining the weight. And um so yeah, the doctors just pick the people who fit their criteria. But there is a, a woman named Mariana Den Hollander who wrote the book, The Heaviest Surgery: My journey with Gastric Sleeve and Gastric Bypass, that is excellent. Um I believed like she self published it and I’m so grateful for her to do this because this book is, let me see, it’s about 100 and 50 pages, and she goes through all of what it was like for her. And what she experienced was something similar to Lisa Marie Presley, which she experienced something called a gastric twist. And we don’t know if actually Lisa Marie experienced this or not because, but it, it’s possible but you know, when, when I told you about the adhesions, like they basically get sticky and so there’s a block in the, in the um stomach or in the intestines somewhere and not the stomach, it must have been the intestines. Um And you know, something that the reports note is that Lisa Marie Presley was complaining of abdominal pain for a few months and then especially the day of she was in lots and lots of like abdominal pain and this um author of this book had the same experience and just was like constantly in pain and doctors would do tests and they couldn’t see anything and it wasn’t until they, like, they stuck a scope down in there that they realize that this person was experiencing a gastric twist. And what they said it is like is if you have a wet t-shirt and you twist it up and then you let it dry, that’s like that. Yeah. Which, you know, I don’t know if you’ve ever had a dog but like dogs with like, especially like big um barrel chest type dogs, which are the type of dogs I’ve always had um they get, they call it bloat, which is basically the same thing. So if a dog eats and then runs around, it can cause their stomach to like twist because there’s just so much room in that like big chest area. Um But that can happen post surgery and part of, because of these adhesions and it can just start to twist and um that’s what this author experienced and for years was experiencing this. Um And they’re like, we don’t even know how you stayed alive, like it was just like how any kind of digestion was happening. Um But the recovery was painful and then she had to end up, she had a gastric sleeve and she had to end up changing it to a gastric bypass because of the the twist she had to like redo the whole surgery. So, yeah, that in itself, I think people need to know about like, if you have any abdominal pain after you’ve gone through surgery, um that’s what could be going on and it’s not just something that they can see with like simple tests, you know. Yeah, so, so scary. Right. 

Coleen: So terrifying. And I, I mean, yeah, it just makes me, I know two folks in my life. Um, one of which is no longer with us who had the surgery, um and one of which who reached out to me as soon as they had the surgery and shared all of these photos with me unprompted, unsolicited, I did not like ask for any of us, Um But I was like, I, you know, my response at the time, I think I had just started my body acceptance journey. So I was pretty like raw, I think in it. And I think looking back at my response, um was it has going through this episode, like to, to write this episode and to talk about this brought, brought that back and, and reading through my response, I was like, you know what, for someone who had just started their body acceptance journey, like way to go Coleen, like you handled that with some grace, which I felt like really proud of, you know, looking back at it. But also, I was very uninterested. Um I remember saying like, hey, like, you know, I, I believe very heavily in, in body autonomy. Um But I, this is not for me and I, I don’t appreciate these pictures like unsolicited. Um And I think that like, you know, if you are someone who this has happened to too, like, maybe you’ve heard of these stories. Um And you, you know, weren’t ready for them or like any response that you give honestly is, is an ok response for you in the moment, like give yourself the grace to, to do what you need to do to protect yourself because it was, it was pretty raw for me. And um also at a time when I wasn’t fully like not where I’m at now. So yeah. 

Julie: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, maybe your response would still be the same even now, you know. Um because yeah, that is a, that’s a really like kind and also like well stated boundary, like stop it. Like you get to do what you want with your body and I could do what I want with mine. 

Coleen: So like maybe just sending it don’t like, I don’t know, ask for consent like before you send something like that, like you have no idea where anyone else is. I, I mean, I, I try to, like, look at it from their point of view or whatever but like, yikes, 

Julie: yeah, one of the um things I notice on TikTok are I, I don’t know if I’m just the product of the algorithm, but more people talking about stop assuming that people are losing weight for positive reasons like, and by positive, you know, you and I are gonna be like, hm, but um that, you know. A person could be experiencing weight loss um because of an eating disorder or because they have cancer or because they’re grieving. Um You know, I guess what, what, how I would reframe that is um not by their choosing, you know, in a sense or like in unintentional weight loss, maybe that’s the word I’m trying to, to find in this. But um yeah, that’s, that’s something that’s so um so much a part of the experience that people are sharing too. I don’t know if you’ve heard this from folks too, Coleen but like experiencing surgery and that really fast change in weight, how that in itself, like that experience can be very jarring for folks. And, um, about 2 to 5 years post surgery is when, um, a lot of my clients would talk about how their weight started to, like, climb back up to where it was before. And, um, and then kind of how the world reacted as their weight kind of returned to where it was, you know. Um, I, and I think this is something if I remember correctly that Mariana describes in her book is that, um, you know, she, she’s said, like people were giving her the idea that she took the easy way out by getting surgery, which is something I hear a lot too, you know. Oh, you’re taking the easy way out and then it didn’t even work for you. Um, and so it sounds like another, like, double shame that you, like you were talking about earlier, you know, so much, so much. Um, well, one of the other things you mentioned too, I think is good for us to talk about is the billboard, you know, the billboard that you see. Um, and I, I, those are things that we see all the time and, um, something that we know to be true is that Lisa Marie Presley’s friends were, as per Page Six, were shocked that she had the surgery, um, that this is a surgery that’s done on people who, um, you know, times people talk about it’s, it’s necessary for people who are dangerously in a higher weight. Um, and I, I hope you can see like that, we don’t agree with terms like that. Um, but also, um, it’s also accessible for people who are in a body size that may not even be in a plus size section at a clothing store. Yeah, people are still getting it. 

Coleen: I I know someone who did um who was not in a one of those defined bodies that you just mentioned um who wore overalls uh for their way in and put rocks in their overalls and it was never like, I mean, this was what probably the early two thousands when this happened. So I think, you know, a different, different time but I will never forget hearing that and being like, why would you do that? Like and thinking, you know, as a younger, I was in high school when I heard this story but thinking as a as a younger adult, like, don’t they don’t, you have to be in a certain way like for it to be safe, you know, thinking in my mind just in a different way. But wondering now like, what do people do to obtain this surgery? And is it even that challenging anymore? Like where someone does that? Like I have no idea what the answers are to those questions. But in, in preparing for this episode with Julie, I also have considered calling that billboard and doing a little bit of investment journalism on my own, um, to see what the conversation might look like for someone going in who is not interested in getting the surgery. Um, so I don’t know, maybe a future episode. 

Julie: Are you saying that you would kind of pretend that you’re interested in the surgery?

Coleen: and hear and hear, Like what, what they would tell me to, to maybe convince me or what, what it would look like, um, for someone going in who might be exploring that because I, I wanna be clear. I am not interested in getting the surgery. 

Julie: Yes. Yes. And you know, we do believe in body autonomy on Find Your Food Voice. So you do what you want with your body and, um, we don’t want you to amputate part of your stomach. Um, something I know from around the same time that your friend was trying to get surgery. That’s when I actually was a dietician, helping people prepare and after surgery for six months, it was my shortest employment that I ever had. And it also happened to be the employment when I like discovered, oh, my gosh, there’s this weight inclusive side and diets are so harmful, but, um, people were getting approved for surgery. Um, you know, if they, they were folks who didn’t need to go to a special store to get their clothes, like that was their body size. But if they had any other co comorbidity, meaning like diabetes or high cholesterol, cardiovascular disease, there were surgeons who were willing to do that and that’s part of this slimy side of surgery, um, especially gastric bypass surgery or any of those different types of, of, um, stomach amputation surgery. It has a really high profit margin. And there’s a, um, sort of this rigor that people need to go through in order to have surgery where they need to, they need to, to work with a dietician for a certain period of time. Some people just need to do this for, um, three months before surgery. Some insurance companies, if they, they will approve and pay for the surgery if a person shows that they worked with a dietician for six months to a year trying to lose weight without surgery and it, that it failed. Um, and then people need to go to, um, a psychologist to assess them to see if they have an eating disorder. But what I know from my own experience and God, I hope it has changed, but I have a really big feeling that it has not is that we would, we would say that this person is experiencing a disorder, they’re not, um, appropriate for surgery and they would still get surgery. Like it was, I never saw anybody get turned down for surgery. So hopefully there’s people out there that have, um, found a different way to do this to make sure it actually like, yeah, there can be some ways to prevent further harm. But, you know, the thing that, um, Lisa Dubreuil, she’s a, a therapist, um, out of Massachusetts, she works at Mass General and her big area of interest in study is people post surgery and their um, new onset depression, um, suicidality and substance abuse in particular, like drugs and alcohol, when a person changes like the shape of their intestinal anatomy, it makes how the body processes these things so fast. And so it leads to like a quicker, more intense kind of um experience from drugs and alcohol. And so the uh percentage of folks, I don’t know off the top of my head, but the percentage of folks who experience um substance abuse and addiction after surgery is really high and again, a new onset, and some people uh used to explain it away as like, well, you know, they were emotionally eating before and addicted to food. And so they just passed the addiction on. But like, there’s actually like this difference in how the body is um absorbing these um things and that um I think it’s a way to further belittle people in higher weight bodies to be like, well, you just don’t have self control, you know, and to minimize it as like, no, this is actually a consequence of the surgery. So, um, since you’re listening to a podcast right now, listener, Google Lisa’s name, I’ll put her name in the show notes for you. Um, listen to every podcast you can about what she has to say. I know she’s been on Food Psych a number of times and taking really deep dives. And I think, you know, as we’re kind of running out of time, I know for me, my big takeaway from anyone who is listening and maybe has a little kind of like part in their brain. That’s like, I kind of want to do this surgery. I would say like, talk to as many people as possible that you know, that you’re not affiliated with any kind of medical center um that are not at like uh that not just the people you find if you go to like an information session, but go on Reddit threads, go on Facebook groups. There are no, I’m, you know, I’m not on Facebook anymore, but I know there’s Facebook groups that have people post surgery who can tell you their experiences. Read Mariana’s book, like, make sure you do like a lot of work and your due diligence on like what people post surgery years out, what their life is like and get like a real description on the first year or two especially and like what, what living with that malnutrition is like um and then make the best decision for you. Yeah, I don’t know if you have any thoughts for people who may be in that space too, Coleen. 

Coleen: I think also. Yeah, maybe trying to find, um, a therapist or someone that is aligned with your values as well, um, can be really helpful to, to work through, um, you know, I, I know it’s not always easy to find somebody that, uh, is maybe anti diet if you’re in an anti diet head space or, um but if you can find someone who might be neutral towards dieting or something like that to talk through some of the just honestly like life trauma that you experience or we experience as fat people, um can help to just kind of unpack a little bit more some of the feelings about why you might be wanting to explore this path as well. Um So that would be just maybe in addition to Julie’s recommendation, something else to think about as you, as you move forward with your decision making. 

Julie: Yeah, before we go, I think what you said, I just think that’s so important and I would just add to it, going to a therapist with your, with that shares your identities, how powerful that could be for you in this moment. And um you know, if you can’t find someone with your own identities, um Oh my gosh, I wanna help you find that person um email and I will help you find that person. Um But also um people who are, I don’t know in charge of therapy programs, this is why we need people of every different type of identity and therapy programs. So make it more accessible. But that’s another diet culture, IRL. Hey, thanks Coleen so much for writing this topic down as an option and exploring it with me. I so appreciate you so much. 

Coleen: Thanks for having me. Great to be back in our diet culture IRLs. Excited for the ones to come. 

Julie: I am too. So there you have it. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Coleen Bremner for this month’s diet culture IRL. And just like we mentioned earlier, if you have any topics you would like to hear us discuss in this segment, we welcome your ideas. Send us an email over at info@julieduffydillon.com. All right. So this episode of Find Your Food Voice was brought to you by the Find Your Food Voice book that is coming in January of 2025. If you would like to follow along as I’m writing this book and actually be there as I’m writing and we can chat, you can do that. All the details are at julieduffydillon.com/book. All right. So I look forward to catching up with you next week until then take care. 

Julie: Thank you for listening. I am Julie Duffy Dylan and this is the Find Your Food Voice podcast. Ready to join the Anti Diet Movement and take the Food Voice pledge? Go to julieduffydillon.com and sign your name to the growing list of people saying no to diets and yes to their own food voice. The Find Your Food Voice podcast is produced by me, Julie Duffy Dylan and my team of kick ass folks. I couldn’t make the show without Yel Cruz, assistant producer and resident book lover and Coleen Bremner, customer service coordinator and professional hype master. Audio editing is from Toby Lyles at 24 sound. Music is Fly Free by Hartley. Are you looking for episode transcripts? Get them at julieduffydillon.com where you can also submit letters for the podcast, give us feedback and sign the food voice pledge. We need your voice to end diet culture. We literally can’t do this without you. Subscribe to the Find Your Food Voice podcast to get weekly inspiration and education on how we can defeat diet culture and reclaim our own food voice. I look forward to seeing you here next week for another episode of the Find Your Food Voice podcast. Take care.