If you’re curious about what it looks like to stop pursuing weight loss, click here for some fabulous freebies that will help guide you in your journey!

Click here to leave me a review on iTunes and subscribe. This type of kindness helps the show continue!

Find FREE food voice resources here.

Thank you for supporting Find Your Food Voice!

Intro music: Bags are packed, are you ready to go?…This time tomorrow we’ll be on the road…riding with you into sunnier days…I wouldn’t want it any other way. 

Julie: It’s time to name the neglect from typical food advice. Welcome to the Find Your Food Voice podcast, hosted by me, Julie Duffy Dillon. I’m a registered dietitian with 20 years of experience partnering with folks just like you on their food peace journey. What have we learned? Well, cookie cutter approaches exclude too many people, and you don’t need to be fixed. It’s not you. It’s not me. It’s all of us. Only together we can start a movement and fix diet culture. And we will. Let’s begin with now.

Transition music: I want to see how the world turns round…Let’s go adventure in the deep blue sea…home is with you wherever that may be…home is with you wherever that may be.

Julie: Hi there. Welcome to episode 355 of Find Your Food Voice. I am Julie Duffy Dillon. I am excited to welcome you to this very special episode where we are talking with Dacy Gillespie. I got to know Dacy in a really interesting way um About a year and a half ago, my Instagram and Facebook accounts got hacked and I was left social media less. And so I kind of wound over to TikTok and LinkedIn is where I found myself mostly on TikTok. Sorry, LinkedIn. You’re just not my style. But anyway, that’s where I found Dacy and Dacy is someone who is a stylist, which I’ve never followed a stylist before. But as you’ll get to know her, you will be excited to, to hear about how she has woven in some concepts that are the values that you and I probably share about rejecting diets and being aware of systems of oppression that are influencing us and trying to reconnect to our authentic self. So I want to read Dacy’s bio and also let you know a little bit about what we talk about in today’s episode. 

Julie: So a little bit about Dacy, as a weight inclusive anti diet, personal stylist, Dacy Gillespie helps her clients reject fashion rules and ideal standards of beauty imposed by the patriarchy, white supremacism, and capitalism so that they can uncover their authentic style. Through their work building a functional wardrobe, Dacy’s clients make a mindset shift from thinking they need to wear what’s flattering to unapologetically taking up space in the world. Sidebar. Dacy’s Substack is called Unflattering and I fucking love that so much. All right, back to her bio after a lifetime of jobs in high stress careers that didn’t suit her highly sensitive introverted personality, Dacy started Mindful Closet in 2013 in an attempt to create a more emotionally sustainable lifestyle. Her work has been featured in Forbes and Real Simple and she is a frequent podcast guest. She is married and has two boys, ages of five and nine. 

Julie: So Dacy is someone that again, since I follow her, I knew a little bit about what she does, but very quickly, what the two of us realized is that as you are repairing your relationship with food, you may also repair other areas of your life and she sees the same thing with styling. So if you find some of the conversations that I have here with you about food to be really just too much right now to unpack, you may find shifting it over into some styling pieces may be a better place for you to start. So besides that, we also talk about um helping with your changing body and changing style. Maybe if you feel like you’re losing your sense of style, how to dress in the workplace, you know, holding on to these big heavy things of uh I want to get ahead and be able to provide for my family, but I also don’t want to be involved in like the patriarchy and white supremacy. How do we do all of that? Then we also talk about thrifting and kind of tips for trying on clothes. So I hope you enjoy this interview with Dacy. I um also if you do enjoy this interview, check out her work on TikTok and all of her things that are available in the show notes. So we’re going to get to my conversation with Dacy in just a few moments after this quick word from our sponsor. 

Julie: Hey Dacy, thanks for coming on the show. 

Dacy: Hi, Julie. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to talk. 

Julie: I am too. And of course, before we pushed record, I was like, I’m so excited to finally meet you. Although I feel like I know you because I’ve been following you on TikTok. And before this, this conversation, I was trying to remember like, how did the like, what were the breadcrumbs? Like, how did I connect with you? And I don’t know, it was just like the beautiful algorithm or if it, because I know you were on a Virginia Sole-Smith podcast. So maybe that’s how I found you, but whatever. Um I was excited to find someone talking about clothes and styling that also threw in patriarchy and like using words like health at every size which um I just hope that, you know, your um combining of these things is a um a signal that this is going to be happening in other industries that people are adopting. But um to kind of get it started. Tell me how you are different from the typical stylist because of these adjectives that, that drew me to you. 

Dacy: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Well, you know, I need to start off by saying like the world of styling is shifting a little bit. Um I would say it is uh pretty rare. Uh My approach is pretty rare. Um because again, this typically uh most stylists or personal stylists as we call ourselves or some people say image consultants and I have to tell you why I don’t like that term. But um you know, most of those people in that profession will kind of look at someone who’s come to them as a client and they will look at them and look at the shape of their body and maybe look at their skin coloring and their hair color and say, OK, I have decided here’s what you should wear. Um And here’s what you should wear according to, you know, XYZ rules that have been put in place. Um And they just, they just kind of accept that that is the standard by which everyone should be dressing themselves. And I, I just really uh go in opposite direction from that. And I also question everything that those uh other typical people in the profession would tell you like I, I just, I question all of it. So my approach um instead of starting with someone’s body and how they look externally, I’m gonna start with the interior, I’m gonna start with what’s your relationship to clothes, then like what messages have you internalized? Uh You know, how has your relationship with clothes affected your relationship with your body? And then my ultimate goal is to be a guide for people, instead of me dictating my, my goal is to be a guide for my clients uh into discovering what it is that they want to wear from an internal desire not uh from a place of conforming to external requirements. 

Julie: What, what is that process like for someone? I know people have their own experiences and stories, but I, I have a feeling that there’s similar blocks that we all face as we’re like, uncovering. Like, oh, wait, this is not something actually what I believe that I was told, what is that process like? 

Dacy: All the time. Um So the first thing I do, um which I, you know, I always find whenever I talk to a dietitian or nutritionist in this realm that you and I live in, um that our processes are very similar. Um Yeah, so I, you know, I send a long intake questionnaire. I really get people thinking before we even meet uh about some of these things in a different way. Um I do have uh some exercises for them to do with Pinterest, but we spend the first session, the entire first session, uncovering and resurfacing and naming all those messages they’ve been given. So again, we start without jumping into the present. Like we really want to kind of look at where those messages in their brain that tell them you can’t wear that. Like where did this come from? And, you know, and most people have never thought about that. Like they’ve never really, as, again, I’m sure it’s similar in your work. It’s like when you start to unpack where I got that belief from. Um, a lot of stuff comes up. 

Julie: Yeah, that I have been thinking about that with what you’re doing and what I do. It is very similar. Like, there’s lots of parallels to it and I don’t know, it’s like, not an accident. I don’t think it’s just a coincidence. I think there’s something that we are experiencing and, like, as guides. Like, I often think of that too. Like, I, I think of myself almost as, like a witness more than I’m not this expert that knows what’s best. I really am just here to witness what you’re unpacking. Maybe a historian for you to kind of keep track of any notes that we find along the way. Um, and you had like the same thing, like people often are like, I don’t know where I heard this food rule or food story and it can take time to get below the surface just because it’s never been accessed before. So, yeah, I would imagine that this is not something that’s just an overnight, like one time thing that people meet with you. It’s really like a process. 

Dacy: Yeah, it’s about, I mean, I prefer to work with people. Uh, well, I have two ways you can, I have a group program and then I also do one on one work and then the one on one work I really prefer to work with people over about eight weeks. Um And so, you know, and, and I used to before the pandemic, everything shifted for me during the pandemic. But before the pandemic I would do these very long sessions, you know, like 2, 3, 4 hours. Um, because that was just the way I was used to working in person. Um, but I realized that without the time to process it was too much to take in at once. So now I do like one hour sessions again, more like, you know, a nutritionist or someone or a therapist would do and I do one hour sessions like, you know, every week or so so that there is and I send notes like a kind of like summarizing what I heard from people and they often find that really interesting as well. Um, yeah. And then they have the week to kind of process and then, you know, the next time I see them I’m always checking in, like, so what else came up for you? Because there’s always something, you know? 

Julie: Yeah, because once you start pecking in there and uncovering things and exposing the lies. Yeah. More bubbles up. It just takes some time. Um, I thought about something else too but it floated on my brain. So we’ll have to go back to it. Such is life. Um, oh, I know what it is. See, that’s how that happens. The, um, the thing with food that I’ve noticed and I wonder if you’ve noticed this too. Um, as people are starting to repair their relationship with food, it does. Start to trickle in other areas. So, if you are seeing this with people’s relationship with, like, how they get dressed and their style, like, are you noticing it going into other areas too, like, really relationships or food or anything like that? Yeah. And I think that’s what I love so much about the work that I do is I see clothing as just an entry point into listening to yourself and your body. 

Julie: Oh That’s so great. 

Dacy: Yeah. And so it’s a good way to practice, right? Because it’s so tangible. I mean, it’s hard to tap into your, you know, your somatic experience and stuff. But uh clothing itself is so tangible. Such a way to practice that, like you can put something on your body and literally say like, how does this make me feel? You know? Um And so, yeah, I’ve had people leave jobs. I’ve had people. Yeah, shift relationships like it really does. Once you start to listen to how your body feels in one area, it’s hard to ignore how it feels in other areas. 

Julie: Yeah. Oh, that, see, that’s something that I, I hope listener, you could keep in mind if food feels just inaccessible, like it just feels too hard to touch, you can go into other areas and, and of course, like body experiences probably are in the same, like equally hard. But I would imagine there’s things with styling that may feel more accessible like accessories or a scarf, something to kind of get, get started. But, um, I kind of want to go back for a second because I’m curious, um, how, like, what made you even combine, like anti diet work and the patriarchal, like, belief systems into this styling business that you have? 

Dacy: Yeah. Well, I, so I was definitely raised as a, you know, the, the way that we thought a feminist kid was, would be raised, you know, and I grew up in the eighties, um which was basically only very surface level in the sense of like girls can do whatever boys can do. Like that was what it was, you know, I was like, I’m as good as a boy. Um And so I always, you know, I kind of went into life with that perspective, maybe to challenge some things that like, oh women are told things that to do things that men don’t have to do or, or whatever. Um I love clothes and fashion and I would say most of my early adulthood, like I didn’t really question anything. I was really focused on looking as hot as possible if I’m being honest. Yeah. And then so I started doing this work after like a big career shift, which I mentioned to you, like, when we, before we started recording, I was a classical musician for a long time, um but got really burnt out and I was, you know, trying to transition into something else and So I started just doing this styling work and helping people clean out their closets. And uh I was really approaching it when I first began from a minimalist point of view. I was very um concerned and still am that, you know, we over consume and especially with clothes, we buy a lot of clothes without giving much thought to how they will be used. And you know, that women are having a hard time getting dressed because they have too many choices in their closet. And I still believe that’s all true. But what happened was woman after woman, after woman that I worked with could not let go of clothes or could not buy new clothes because of how they felt about their bodies. Um And I just couldn’t ignore it. You know what I mean? Like I, and I was obviously not going to be one of those stylists who was like, oh yeah, well, why don’t you get on an exercise plan and then you can go to these clothes, you know what I mean? Like I just wasn’t uh willing to buy into that. Um and enable that. So I just basically started doing my own research and, and found intuitive eating and health and every size and again, just realized like, yeah, like we are never going to uh feel comfortable in our clothes unless we can begin the journey. You know, I don’t think it’s ever a journey that’s gonna end. But until we can like begin that journey of working towards body acceptance or neutrality. 

Julie: Mhm mhm Gosh, that is again another parallel to like anyone in the health field that experiences this kind of awakening and, and how you even said like there was just this foundation that kept you like, like just made you aware of something that wasn’t right and you just couldn’t like gloss over it or join in and yeah, just you know, repeat what I said before. I just hope this is a sign that other professions are going to include this. And I’m so excited because I think that’s how we change big cultural assumptions and oppressive system. So we are on our way, 

Dacy: fingers crossed. 

Julie: Um Well, there are two people that help me out with this podcast. Um uh The listeners know Rachel Popik is our anti diet chef and she also um hey Rachel, who listening now before anyone else, because she also helps me with um producing this podcast. And then Coleen Bremner is our hype woman extraordinaire. She does Diet Culture IRL segments and they both had questions for you. 

Julie: Um And so Rachel is um someone who said she is experiencing kind of a um like losing her sense of style because she said she’s going through a period where her body is going through changes and no matter why a person, no matter like the reason, a lot of people listening to the show will also be going through body changes. There’s lots of people who are rejecting diets for the first time, um, or recovering from eating disorder or both. Um Or like, I don’t know if you just are privileged to get older, bodies change. That’s like the only constant, right? Um But what Rachel said is she’s been relying on hand me downs, which has been fabulous to like, help her to be able to like clothe herself. But she’s also like, I feel like I’m losing my sense of style. Um So when I, when she told me this question, I was like, well, this is hard. I don’t know. So Dacy, do you have any like anything that comes to mind for you to like what any recommendations or like, do you see this and often with your work that you do? 

Dacy: Uh Yeah, I see it all the time and I have many, many, many ideas like I’m like, yeah, let’s dig in. Um Yes, I would say this is one of the major issues that I work with. I mean, I literally just had a call yesterday with a new client who, you know, her body has changed after many life, you know, as you said, just like our bodies change throughout life. That is the only constant. And um and she just really felt uh not herself and she really didn’t even know where to start. You know, she, she has almost no clothes to wear because her clothes don’t fit anymore. Um And so, so yeah, so for Rachel, I have so many suggestions for her and I would say the, the thing to start with is a little bit of this uh awareness that we’ve been talking about like a little bit of unpacking. Like where do her ideas come from about clothes? And then also I would suggest trying to get back in touch with what her aesthetic style is without worrying about the actual clothes yet. And what I mean by that is, is essentially gathering inspiration. So it can be, I use Pinterest as a tool. It can be on Instagram or TikTok. But starting to save things that she comes across that she likes the look of without and this is the important part without letting those thoughts come in that usually uh you usually censor yourself with for instance, like I love like you see an image you’re like, oh, I love that outfit. That’s so cool. That’s so cute. Whatever your like little spark of enthusiasm is usually the voice comes in to shut that down, right? Which says you couldn’t wear that. You know, your body wouldn’t look good in that or even, you know, you couldn’t afford that or you have nowhere to wear that like whatever those voices are that come in to try to go with that first instinct of enthusiasm and then move on like shut the other parts out. Save that image. What will happen is, you will end up with a collection of images or videos or wherever, you know, you’re getting your inspiration and then you can kind of go back and check and see like what’s what, what do these have in common? They always will have something in common even if you think you have no style or if you think your style is all over the place, like once you do that, you will always see kind of, I hate using this because it feels like a pun. But I don’t mean it that way you will see the common threads throughout, you know, you’re board. Um And, and one thing too, as far as that kind of reflecting part is I really find a lot of people really identify with what they’re inner child wanted to wear, whether they got, whether they were able to wear that or not tap back into like, what did I want to wear as a little kid? And I was I allowed to or was, was I put in something I didn’t like or was I uncomfortable in whatever it was that, you know, my parents, uh or people who were in charge of me, you know, kind of put on my body because often when we’re that little, we don’t have, we can’t go out and buy our own clothes, we, we can’t necessarily choose. So, um so those are a few places to start. 

Dacy: Second, when I saw this, you sent me this question in advance and when you said that she’s relying on hand me downs. Um, I kind of cringed a little bit because it’s, it’s certainly sustainable and it’s certainly, you know, budget conscious. But to me that sounds like she’s not getting any say in what she’s wearing. It’s almost like she’s that little child again, you know. Um, and so my advice is always to, once you’ve done a little bit of that style unpacking, I just feel it’s vitally important to have just a few items that you really love that fit your body, right? And so you get guidance from your inspiration to know what it is that you might want to wear and there’s going to be some experimentation in there. Um because some things you’ll think you like and then you try them on and you’re like, whoa don’t like this. Um So, uh yeah, I think it’s really important for her to give herself permission to buy some new clothes even if her body continues to change because I fully believe like you cannot, it’s, it’s so it’s so treacherous going through body image change and changes in your body. Like you already feel destabilized, you already feel vulnerable, you already feel very uh you know, maybe not at ease with where your body is. Putting clothes on this new body is one again, tangible thing, that you can do that will actually make you feel better like it will immediately make it feel better. And again, you know, shopping is, is very hard. Not, that’s a whole other question. So I’m not saying this is an easy process, but I wonder if she is not giving herself the permission to actually spend a little bit of clothes. Of course, I don’t know her financial situation and for some people that, you know, that can be difficult. Although even if you’re thrifting or even if you’re getting hand me downs, you can still kind of pick and choose what you want. 

Julie: Yeah, I think even just naming that, hey, what you’re experiencing right now, maybe uh maybe uh what you experience as a child and people picked out the clothes for you, like when you connected to that, I was like, oh, that, that’s not something I connected to initially because um yeah, I just thought, hey, now is great. Like that’s uh free sustainable way to kind of help. But even if there’s not an option to buy anything, like to even name, hey, one thing that may be making this hard and feel like you’re losing your sense of style is because you’re not given any choice. Yeah. And that in itself I think could be like 50% of it, you know, just even naming what’s happening. Um And you know, something that you’ve done on TikTok before, I think it was kind of recent. Um you talked about like having the Pinterest boards to inspire and instead of buying new clothes, looking in your closet and being able to, like, figure out a way to make it look like those. And I’m like, I wonder if that’ll happen for you Rachel or if you’re thrifting or something you already have the boards, um, made, you know, it’ll be fresher in your brain to be able to pull, like, I don’t know, a button down or it’s like something that you may have been inspired by and find something similar or again. Yeah, I’ll be able to style the things that you do have. 

Dacy: So, yeah, I think that inspiration piece is so important because people just want to jump in and start buying stuff and I really think you have to like, give it some thought process it a little bit, uh, let that sink in. Um And then, you know, just the other little piece of practical advice here is like, make a shopping list from what’s on your Pinterest board. If you don’t know where to start, you know, like look at your Pinterest board and those images that you’ve collected and see, like, are they all? Yeah. Are they all outfits with jeans and button downs or are they all outfits with really flowing bohemian dresses, Like what’s on there and then put that on your list? So when you go into a thrift store or when you go somewhere that’s overwhelming to shop, you know, exactly what you’re looking for. Like if you’re looking for a bohemian dress, you are going to avoid all the tailored pants. You know what I mean? And there’s a whole section. Exactly. It just narrows your options. Which is a good thing. 

Julie: Yeah. Something that’s tricky too about body changes. Um, that is just part of like, how our brain works is like, our brain often will think about our body from a couple of years ago as that. That’s the reality and not in any kind of like stigmatizing way. It’s just like, that’s how it’s grounded. And so when our body is going through changes and there’s times in our life where it just is going to do that. Um many times throughout life, it can be like destabilizing. And so I’m picturing uh Rachel or anyone who’s experiencing something similar, also dressing in a way that’s like not the clothes that you picked out how that just really would further. Um just keep you from being grounded. Um And then also like how the world reacts to your body changing, can even be just yeah, more stigmatizing, microaggressions, macro aggressions, um all those things. And um I wanna like take it a step further, like about trying some new stuff. Do you have any recommendations for someone? I guess this could be really for anyone, whether their body is changing or not but like how to like try on clothes or like any like tips that you’re like, ok, when you’re at a store pick this mo, or if you’re ordering online, do you have anything in particular that comes to mind? 

Dacy: Oh, yeah. I mean, I could do an hour of this with every client a full hour on how to try on clothes. 

Julie: Um, well, that’s good. First of all, just even naming that, like, there’s lots of options and things that you can experiment with to, like, help making trying on clothes less painful because that is like that keeps people from even just trying, you know. 

Dacy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, first of all, unless you’re shopping, maybe second hand, I almost would advise not to shop in person. Um And you know, unfortunately, this is something that has been a really negative experience for people in body sizes that aren’t carried in mainstream stores. Like they feel very left out and excluded. And I do understand that at the same time, uh you just have a wider variety of options online. And not only that, for me, it just is safer to try and close at home. It just feels much safer to most people. So, um so again, I’m just going to speak to like if you’re ordering new clothes online for a minute here and we can talk more about second hand. But, you know, I always advise people try to neutralize their measurements from having any moral value. That’s very hard to do. I understand. But using your own measurements is a really important tool. And trying to find clothes that fit. Um, and even still. Um, and you can, you know, if this is very triggering for you can, you can have a partner do it and not tell you the numbers and then have them look at the size charts online and kind of maybe even place the orders for you. Um, you can have a partner help you when the clothes arrive so that, you know, maybe you put, um, painters tape or something over the tags, um, while you’re trying on. So, um, so those are a couple of little things, but, but generally, even if you kind of know your ballpark size in any brand and any retailer, we know they’re going to vary not only from retailer to retailer but from item to item within one store, like nothing is standardized. And again, that’s a whole other rant that we could talk about for an hour. But, um, I will get a ballpark idea from the size chart and then I’m always going to recommend people order two sizes because the worst thing in the world is when you order one thing it comes, it doesn’t fit, you feel defeated, you don’t want to start the process over again. So if you order two sizes, you at least have kind of two options to try and, uh, I wish it wasn’t this way, but we’re all kind of conditioned to think. Uh, a bigger size is worse and a smaller size is better. And so if you, when you’re trying on, try on the bigger size first, because unfortunately the way we’ve been conditioned is that if you try on the smaller size first and then you have to go up in size, you feel bad. So start with the bigger size and if you have to go down in size, ok, whatever. Um, and then I’m going to always recommend that you order, you know, if you’re placing an order from one store kind of throw whatever you want in that cart. Um because you are paying one shipping fee, you’re gonna pay one return fee and you just like the, the assumption with my clients that I try to prepare them for is that you will be returning things regardless like it is, you might have heard me talk about this on social media, but the average rate of return for my clients across the board is 90%. So that means if you try on 10 items, if you keep one that’s normal, that’s average. I think so many people are really again defeated when they try on things from online and, and not everything works. But you know, it’s, we’re playing the fit lottery is what I call it. So like there’s no way to know whether these things are going to fit. We’re going to assume they won’t. That’s just the expectation we’re going to go in with. Uh So yeah, so then you know, you may have ordered a few items you’ve maybe ordered from a couple of stores. I recommend waiting until all the shipments have arrived because trying on is emotionally draining. It’s physically draining. Um, and so you don’t want to just like be trying on one item as it arrives and then the next day try on two items because you’re going through that emotional process every time. So I like to wait until most things have arrived. And then I want people to intentionally schedule some time knowing that they need to be emotionally resourced and that they’ll need recovery time. 

Julie: Oh, that’s great. 

Dacy: Yeah, because, you know, and I think that’s another thing too where we’ve been in kind of conditioned to think like, oh, trying on clothes is fun. Let’s do this. It’s like a girl thing, but it’s really not. And again, you’re very average and normal if it’s not fun for you. Um, and so at home you get to create your space with your temperature controls, your mirror, your, you know, water on hand or snacks or whatever you need to have. Dressing rooms are just, you know, it’s so vulnerable. I mean, you’re, you’re already in this vulnerable place and then you got somebody knocking on your door, you know what I mean? It can get hot in there. Um, so, yeah, those are a few just. 

Julie: I love those. Those are great. Yeah, they are really great because, uh, the way that you’re describing that is um ordering clothes is basically just use, it’s like a dressing room. Like it’s, it’s, it’s like if you were in the store and had a big stack and you were going through them all um to think of it that way. Um Yeah, and watching your content that has normalized that for me of like um if I’m thinking it’s one size, yeah, get a couple extra. Do you recommend like if you’re guessing uh size B than getting A and C or like, or like, do you recommend like two sizes above or just somewhere in the middle? 

Dacy: It depends on where you fall in some stores. Um I will try three sizes because I just don’t have any experience with that store or, and their size chart isn’t giving me enough information, but for most people, their measurements are going to fall within the range of, of one size and if they’re a little bit on one edge of the range, then that’s the size I would say order, like if you’re to the higher measurement on that particular size, get the size up and vice versa. 

Julie: Ok. Ok. That’s super helpful. Um, ok, so Coleen is the other fabulous person who I get to work with and Coleen works in an office that, um, there’s this expectation to dress up and to like look quote professional, you know, cue the eye roll and you know, Coleen, as a higher weight woman, has already said she feels limited in where she can shop. Um, she’s like, I have Lane Bryant and New York and Company, but like, really, like, I don’t have that many places and she also is like, well, she wants to move up, like, she wants to do more in this kind of position and she’s been told, like, if she dresses a certain way, she’ll be taken more seriously. And so she’s like, I kind of feel conflicted because she’s like, I wanna advance, but I also want to stay safe and comfortable. Do you have any recommendations on how to navigate that? 

Dacy: Yeah, I mean, this question is kind of at, it’s just a, it’s a real problem. It’s a real issue. I mean, the whole concept of professionalism is something that is a white supremacist and patriarchal. I mean, the word professional, like that’s all I can. It is how close can we dress to what a white man dresses like from 100 years ago, even? Like, how close can we get to that standard? So it’s, it’s an impossible task and the more marginalized you are, the more in danger you will be if you don’t conform in that, in that environment. Um And so what I always want to try to do is have those of us who are in straight size bodies who have old other privileges like being white or being, you know, adhering to some sort of ideal beauty standard. I think it is those people and I’m including myself in that it’s our job to push the boundaries because someone like Coleen or someone in a more marginalized body will get punished if they try to push those boundaries. And that is heartbreaking to me. I mean, what should be happening here is that the people who work with her, look at her work and the quality of her work and the quality of her character and judge her based on those things instead of what she wears. 

Julie: Which are all fabulous. 

Dacy: Yes. Yes, I am 100% sure of that. And, and unfortunately, that is not the world we live in. And so she’s in a very, very, very tough place. Like, first of all, I just want to acknowledge that. Um And so I think this is a gray area that everyone has to navigate on their own based on. Yeah. How much can she do to feel more comfortable in her clothes? And then at what point will that start to harm her? Right. And how much does she have to conform in order to take care of herself financially or, you know, whatever. Um But you did say something that I just want to touch on a little bit like I am wondering and, and maybe, you know this information or, or maybe she’s already doing this but, you know, we are getting, it’s not enough, but we are getting more options for uh a variety of ranges of sizes mostly online. So I’m wondering the two stores you mentioned. I’m wondering if she’s doing any shopping online. Um Do you happen to know that? 

Julie: I think so. Yeah, and actually she even mentioned she’s like there’s a couple of thrift stores that are online that I love that. She’s like, can you, can you mention? So is it ok if I drop them here and we’ll also put them in the show notes too? Ok. So, um because Coleen, Rachel and all, we all love thrifting. 

Dacy: Me too, obviously from my latest content, you know that. 

Julie: So one is in Minneapolis called Cake Plus Size and Artemis Plus Size, which is in Maine, Portland, Portland, Maine, not Maine Portland. Um And Coleen was like, I, she’s like, I’ve been there and she doesn’t, she lives in the southeast. So like she has made a point to visit these stores just because like how rare they are. And then also um yeah, so she has um said really positive things about them and then um Rachel mentioned Curve Conscious which is based in Philadelphia and um it used to be a store, but I think it’s now only online. Um So that’s another one. Those are the three that they were like singing their praises about. So let’s drop them there. Yeah, there’s also um Plus Bus which I know there’s a Plus Bus Brooklyn and I feel like there’s maybe one in LA as well. Um But yeah, 

Dacy: um Yeah. So what would be the question here? We just want to talk about where she can find. 

Julie: No, no, I think we just wanted to drop them. So that was just the time to drop them in there. Um In case the listener looking for places and yeah, like online, it sounds like for, for Dacy, like online has allowed more options and more safety and more choices and the same as options. But um so that yeah, like make sure to do that. And so um I have a a selfish question for me. Um and I think this, these are the things that I when I watch your content. I’m like, oh, I want to ask about this, please. Yeah, so um I’m almost 49. Um and excuse me, I’m experiencing like my own kind of style shift and some of it has to do just, it’s like a different season of life. Like I’m going through a divorce and I’m dating and so clothes like shopping for clothes. I’m like, what would I wear on a date? Oh my gosh, like this is just a new thing for me which has been really fun. Um And I, I love trying out new styles. I haven’t been someone to make a Pinterest board. Um but I think that may be something after talking today that I want to do because I’m thinking of, of ideas. Um So I think I need to like figure out how to get back into my Pinterest. Um, but do you have any thrifting strategies? Um, and you mentioned some already, like, look at your board and make a list of what you need. But I think what I’m curious about, um, because I definitely like when I try on clothes it, I, I like certain fabrics. Um, I like, yeah, like just where it falls, how it falls. Is there anything that particularly you would say, like, look for this or avoid something? Does anything come to mind for you? 

Dacy: Yeah. Well, I am, as I just said, I’m an avid thrift and have been for, let’s see, what, 35 years now, you know, like, um, so yes, I mean, the first thing is really starting with some idea of what you’re looking for and what are never buys for you. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, uh, you know, what are the things that you’re never gonna buy? Like, for me, it might be one thing I never wear is sheer tops. Like, I just don’t like the feeling of having to have too many layers underneath it. Like, it just gets twitchy and like, you know, so I just don’t buy sheer tops anymore. I don’t buy skirts anymore. Like that’s just, they’re too hard to style what tops you put with them, blah, blah, blah. Um, so, you know, anything you can do with thrifting for people who are overwhelmed to start thrifting. It’s because there are so many choices, there’s so many options and so the more you can kind of like, have the strict idea of what you’re looking for, the more you can skim past and just block out the noise of the stuff that doesn’t fit what you’re looking for. Um, I think thrifting is amazing for trying new styles. You know what I mean? And experimenting and I will often do that and I, I don’t know if I should, I don’t, I just don’t feel bad about it. Like I don’t feel bad if I am interested in trying something and I get it home, you know, and it was three or five or $6 or whatever and I get it home and wash it and put it on and decide like this isn’t really what I thought it would be because then I just donate right back. Like there is, there’s an aspect of that that can go too far, which I, I used to do. I really honestly used to buy too much at the thrift store and then I was in this constant cycle of buy, try once, donate. And that just got to be a hassle honestly. And so then I became much more picky about what I thrift. But, but I have no problem if like, you know, to me it’s just like, well, I tried it, I’m putting it back in the circular economy. I might be out $6 but, you know, I’m ok with that. Um, so I think, um, for you it’s kind of, you know, and something else I always have my clients think about whether for thrifting or not is, is just really, like you said, like, what kind of fabrics do you like? Like what kind of cut do you like? Um, and then it’s pretty easy. Like I, I am, I have trained myself to just, if there’s a row of tops, you know, on a rack. Uh, I can like just skim by and look at them as if they’re book covers. Like if you’re walking in a book. Yes. And so like for me for a long time, I was looking for linen and linen is pretty rare to show up in thrift stores. So I could just walk along the line and look just even on a hanger, I could just tell from the shoulder whether something was a fabric that I wanted to try or maybe you’re looking to experiment with different colors or with more neutral or whatever it might be. Again, you can kind of skim along and be like, oh, there’s a color that I’m looking for. Um, right now I think I just posted the other day that I’m like, I’m a very neutral wardrobe kind of person, but I am just for fun wanting to experiment with color in my like active wear. Um I’m kind of inspired, I’m inspired by this woman who is at the classes that I take and she’s an older woman and she always wears these fun color combos and she always has eyeglass frames to match. Like, she has like a wardrobe of eyeglass frames and it’s so fun. So, anyway, so what I’ve done is I’ve created a little Pinterest board of the color combos I like. And then now when I go to the thrift stores, that’s what I’m focused on on. I’m like, oh, can I find like a forest green or can I find like, uh, you know, uh, tomato red, you know, those kind of things? So, um, I don’t know. Are those helpful? 

Julie: Really helpful? Yeah. And I think, um, I’ve done the similar thing, like the book covers and I, what I, my brain has thought about is, like, am I missing something? Because I’m just skimming. But it sounds like, no, that’s probably helping me not get so overwhelmed. 

Dacy: Yeah. So, Julie is so funny and I don’t think I’ve ever admitted this to anyone else but 

Julie: bring it. 

Dacy: It’s going to sound so silly. But I truly believe that if I go into a thrift store and there’s something there meant for me, it’s going to find me. 

Julie: No, no, no. I, because there’s some days where it’s on, you can just tell there’s things and that you’re, you’re, you’re connecting with that you’re finding that are, like, meant for you. Um, and I don’t think I’ve ever told anybody this, we’ll just completely share new things. Um, when my ex and I were, we had already decided that we were going to separate, but we didn’t tell anyone yet. Like, we were waiting to tell the kids after school was out. So I had a good, like, six months to just wait. And what I did was every week I would go to the thrift store at the end of the week and I would just look for something, I love, I love the thrift store. Like, just looking experience. Like, I love doing that kind of stuff anyway. And I found myself really looking for not as much clothes but like, um, trinkets and, uh, handmade pottery. I don’t know, just like everything in the, the fragile section. And that became like, I would walk in and be like, what is here for me today? Like there is something and it was like a dopamine hit. It was like, it, it helped me to get through that kind of like waiting period. And yeah, I do think it was like the universe was like, I have manifested this for you Julie to help you this week. And now I have all these things over my house, all over my house now that I collected that are like, look at what I got through. That is awesome. Um, but yeah. No, I agree. I mean, there’s a little woo with it, but like, what you, what your brain does when you go thrifting. My brain does a similar thing. So, like we’re on the same page. 

Dacy: So I’d say, yeah, if you miss something and then it wasn’t meant for you, it wasn’t meant for you. It wasn’t meant for me. It was for someone else. 

Julie: Well, um, this has been really fun and I, um, selfishly and just so glad that I finally had a chance to talk to you. That’s the beauty of having a podcast and why I recommend everyone to have one because then you get to talk to who you want to talk to. But um if someone is like, holy crap, I need a Dacy in my life. How can people find you and like, what is working with you look like?

Dacy:  Sure. So my website is called mindfulcloset.com. Um I have a Substack called Unflattering. 

Julie: Oh, I love your Substack, by the way. 

Dacy: Thank you. Um And then I’m on Instagram and TikTok @MindfulCloset. Um So, as I mentioned earlier, there’s two weeks to work with me. One is in my group program, which I run three or four times a year. Um And that’s an eight week program and we run through uh how to define your style, um a closet edit, how to edit your closet with. And we do weekly meetings to like, basically just like pump each other up and give advice and, you know, kind of support each other. Um And then we do all my shopping tips and all my, you know, I call it like my shopping tutorial. I will take everyone through that as well. Um, and then we have some uh, class sessions which are just for hot seats. So people can kind of get like a little one on one help in that way. And then when I work with clients, one on one, we work through all those same topics, but I’m doing a lot of the heavy lifting for you. That’s the basic difference. And when we work together one on one, I will do personal shopping for you. I will teach you how I shop, but I will also be taking several hours to scour the whole internet to find what it is that you need. Um And then we, yeah, so we do defining your style session. We do a closet edit, we do a shopping tutorial. I shop for you. We do a try on session and then we have kind of an integration session where we kind of look at how far we’ve come. 

Julie: That sounds so like, oh, so nice, like have a personal shopper and especially someone who has this, this like shared value system of um Hey, we know the patriarchy is dictating so much of our rules. Let’s fucking break that up. 

Dacy: Yeah. Yeah. Every bit of it is through that lens. You know. 

Julie: I love that. I love that. Well, thank you. Thank you for like showing up that way and, and I know it’s just showing up as you. So like, thank you for doing that. Um And we’ll put all those things in the show note, listeners. So, um thank you for sharing with us, you know, everything that you have going on and helping people just to feel a little bit more home in their body. 

Dacy: Oh, thank you, Julie. This was also a treat for me to get to chat with you. So thanks so much for having me. 

Julie: So there you have it. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Dacy all about styling and thrifting, especially through a lens that helps you to feel more at home in your body. Um, of course, Dacy and I chatted a little bit after we stopped recording and something that came up that we both were like, yeah, we want, we wish we would have named that just how, you know, we were talking about the joy of thrifting for the two of us and they are both straight size, neurotypical people who are safe going thrifting. So I know many of you have let me know how hard thrifting can be because of being differently abled or neurodivergent. And also just how hard it can be to find, uh, clothes that fit your body because you’re not in a straight size body. So, um, wanted to name that and, um, so appreciate any feedback that you have and I hope that Dacy’s conversation again, yeah, helps you to find more ways to find joy with clothes, feel ok in your body. However, you are styling it and also hope the links in the show notes help you to put that into action. All right. So I look forward to checking in with you in two weeks. We will be doing an episode that is a listener question. If you have a question or a letter for me, I would love to have them send them over at info@juliedillonrd.com. All right, that’s all for now. Until next time. Take care.

Julie: Thank you for listening. I am Julie Duffy Dillon, and this is the Find your Food Voice podcast. Ready to join the anti diet movement and take the food voice pledge? Go to julieduffydillon.com and sign your name to the growing list of people saying no to diets and yes to their own food voice. The Find Your Food Voice podcast is produced by me, Julie Duffy Dillon, and my team of kick ass folks. I couldn’t make the show without Yeli Cruz, Assistant Producer and Resident Book Fiend. And Coleen Bremner, Customer Service Coordinator and professional Hype Master. Audio editing is from Toby Lyles at 24 Sound. Music is Fly Free by Hartley. Are you looking for episode transcripts? Get them at julieduffydillon.com, where you can also submit letters for the podcast, give us feedback, and sign the Food Voice pledge. We need your voice to end diet culture. We literally can’t do this without you. Subscribe to the Find Your Food Voice podcast to get weekly inspiration and education on how we can defeat diet culture and reclaim our own food voice. I look forward to seeing you here next week for another episode of the Find Your Food Voice podcast. Take care.