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Intro music: Bags are packed, are you ready to go?…This time tomorrow we’ll be on the road…riding with you into sunnier days…I wouldn’t want it any other way. 

Julie: It’s time to name the neglect from typical food advice. Welcome to the Find Your Food Voice podcast, hosted by me, Julie Duffy Dillon. I’m a registered dietitian with 20 years of experience partnering with folks just like you on their food peace journey. What have we learned? Well, cookie cutter approaches exclude too many people, and you don’t need to be fixed. It’s not you. It’s not me. It’s all of us. Only together we can start a movement and fix diet culture. And we will. Let’s begin with now.

Transition music: I want to see how the world turns round…Let’s go adventure in the deep blue sea…home is with you wherever that may be…home is with you wherever that may be.

Julie: If you have a complicated history of food, you are in the right place. Welcome to episode 359 of the Find Your Food Voice podcast. I am Julie Duffy-Dillon, registered dietitian. And if you’re new to the show, maybe you’ve found me in that recent New York Times article about PCOS and diets. Well, welcome. If you haven’t checked out that New York Times article, well, just Google PCOS diets in New York Times, you’ll get right to it. And just know when that journalist reached out to me, I had at least a semester’s worth of material to give me through, and she asked many great questions and funneled it down to what was in the article. But there’s just so much more to unpack. And the comment section, if you can dodge the fatphobic bullets in there, are just so many responses that I think are important to lift up, especially if you don’t have PCOS and you’re wondering what’s like. like. But anyway, if you found me because of that, welcome. You will find many, many episodes of the Find Your Food Voice podcast focused on PCOS and insulin resistance. And there are many that are for anyone with or without PCOS who also just happens to have a complicated history with food. And if you have been trying to break up with dieting or recovering from an eating disorder, what tools are helping you? Maybe you listen to podcasts like this one, or have gone to a therapist or a dietitian, or you’ve gone to both, you do all of these, do you still need more? Well, that’s not surprising. Most people need more than just those interventions. Recovering into a world that hasn’t even acknowledged it has an issue with food and weight discrimination. Well, it just takes a lot to mend everything. So I have a question for you. Have you ever tried group therapy? I know it’s daunting I joined an individual psychotherapy group for my own like personal kind of needs I had at the time I did this six or seven years ago.  It was way before COVID and it lasted at least three or four years. It was this kind of ongoing group. And I had been in and out of individual therapy myself for over 10 years, but I just needed different insight. And doing this group, it really did help me understand myself more, especially as I’m interacting with other humans. I think I had come to the place where like being by myself, I could do okay. And that was probably because of individual therapy. But when I added in, I don’t know, like other people on the planet, it just made it harder. 

Julie: So this episode is focusing on how and why and how you go about adding group work into your complicated history of food. And we have an interview with two guests. First is Adina Silverman and Carolyn Carroll.

Julie: So Adina is a registered dietitian specializing in the treatment of eating disorders and disordered eating in her private practice in Baltimore, Maryland. And Carolyn is a highly regarded therapist and clinical supervisor who is also dedicated to the treatment of eating disorders. Both are also committed to eradicating weight stigma, which is why I invited them on to the show. And they are also co -authors of a book called Eating Disorder Group Therapy, a Collaborative Approach, and they run the Thrive Eating Disorder Recovery Group. So this book in particular that’s in pre -order or depending on when you listen to this could be out right now. I got a chance to read it and I wish I had it before I ran my own groups. It is a handy reference. It’s one of those books that you’ll refer to a lot and it’ll have lots of like dog ears and pages that you’ll mark up because it has everything that I could imagine that a clinician would need to help start a group,  get activities to keep them going and any concerns, like ways to navigate it while running an eating disorder recovery group. But if you are not a clinician, well, please know that this episode is specifically designed for you. Adina and Carolyn share why adding group therapy can help your complicated history of food and how to get started. If you happen to be a clinician listening in, welcome. You can also listen to this episode and arm yourself with more ways to make groups more welcoming and inclusive.

Julie: So before we get to this interview, I also wanna update you on my book, just a very quick update, the Find Your Food Voice book. If you don’t know about it,  I’m writing a book. This is so exciting, right? And it’s gonna be out in January 2025. And I happen to just finish writing the very first draft. You know, the very clunky draft, but it’s done. So my neighbor is like, well, Julie, you have all the guts to it. Now you just gotta like package it up. And I love a gut reference. But anyway, the guts are done, I’m taking a week off and then I’m going to spend the next two months editing it before I send it. it over to my publisher. By then, by the end of May, it will be available for pre -order. Of course, I will share a way for you to pre -order it, so you don’t miss out right when it comes out in January. But again thank you so much for the words of encouragement. Whenever I send out an email or drop an episode, there’s always somebody that connects with me and just says that, I don’t know, just some encouraging words and shares their excitement with me. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And we are going to get to this episode’s interview with Adina and Carolyn in just a moment, we’re just gonna pause for a quick sponsor break. 

Julie: Hey there, Carolyn and Adina. Welcome to the Find Your Food Voice podcast. 

Adina: Hi. 

Carolyn: Hi, nice to be here.

Julie: Yes, I’m so excited to talk to you and I am excited to talk to you about getting together in group settings when someone is trying to repair their complicated history with food because I think so much focus is on like the one -on -one experience and I mean, we haven’t talked about this yet as the three of us, but like there’s so much that can happen with peer support and just group kind of dynamics to help. And so, thank you so much for being here today. And so yeah, I’m excited to dive into this topic. And my first question kind of goes along those lines for the two of you. What do you see is missing in like the typical eating disorder treatment that group therapy can provide?

Adina: I mean, I think that one of like, as clinicians, one of the things that we thought was missing was just like the skill set to be able to run groups. One of the reasons that we wrote this book was to be able to provide tools and worksheets and group ideas for clinicians so, you know, to be able to leverage that peer support to help and support each other. So, I mean, I think first of all, you know, just having ideas and things to do, discussions, you know, questions to pose to the group is something that is so missing from group. But also just, you know, we all do individual work and we know that it can be a lot of, you know, the individual talking to their clinician and it can kind of start to feel like an echo chamber of the same beliefs and the same thoughts and so being able to hear other people’s thoughts and having actual members of the group supporting each other is something that is so valuable that a lot of people haven’t experienced if they’ve just been an individual work for so long.

Julie: Yes, so true. I think about that echo chamber. That is like… That’s exactly it. Because I think of sessions with clients one -on -one. There is so much repetition. And often people will be like, “I know, I know. There’s no good or bad food,” or whatever, like rolling their eyes at me. And yet still feeling so isolated and having to do something that feels abnormal compared to the rest of the world, you know? 

Carolyn: Yeah. And there’s so so much shame that can go along with having an eating disorder. And also, the shame that creates this isolation, right? And so having bringing people together in community and hearing shared experiences, being able to relate to each other, like really is powerful and can be really transformative. So, you know, while the therapist may be providing some good feedback and suggestions, there is something that cannot be replicated, right? The group provides that can’t be replicated in individual therapy. You have people feeling validated and supported and again, having experiences that oftentimes people have never shared except maybe to their therapist, maybe not even to their therapist. I find that people actually feel more open, they might feel more even more understood. 

Julie: Yeah, yeah, like there’s been times in group sessions where I’ve heard people say like, I’ve never said anything. like this before I’ve never told anyone this before not even my therapist and yeah that’s like the power of it and it’s not that like necessarily you have to divulge all these things but also like you were saying Caroline like if you’re feeling less isolated then there’s gonna be less shame too and something else I’ll mention is whenever I get listeners emails, which I love them, thank you, anyone who ever sends an email, one of the things that people will often say is, I was listening to that letter that someone wrote in, and even though I didn’t write it, I could have written it. That’s what I think about for group therapy is hearing someone talk about their own experiences of food. Listener, I have a feeling you will then feel like so much at. more at ease because you definitely are definitely not alone. And okay, so if someone is listening, they’re like, okay, Julie, I’m hearing what you’re saying. Maybe I can look into a group. Do you have any advice for someone if they’re like at the very beginning, they’re like, okay, maybe I want to look into doing a group. What should they look for? Like, how should they begin this process? 

Adina: Well, I think that they should start off by thinking about what kind of groups they’re looking for because there’s not many different groups out there. So, you know, there are open groups that are just kind of popping that anyone can join. There’s no, you know, official screening or onboarding process, you can just kind of show up. And those can be wonderful and really supportive, but, you know, you also don’t know necessarily the mix of people who are going to show up on any given night. So, if you’re someone who’s in more of a fragile place in recovery, and there may be possibly some triggering language, or people who are really struggling, that may not be exactly what you need to hear at that point in time. You may want to think about a closed group where you apply to be a part of the group. Sometimes there’s an application, or some clinicians will even do a formal intake or eval in preparation of someone starting group And that can be a good way for someone to know that they are part of more of a curated group. A lot of times there’s a focus. It could be for a specific population, a specific issue, or for people at a certain point in their recovery, which can sometimes be really helpful. So thinking about kind of what type of a group you want is really important. And I would– would also think about, like, is there a certain topic that you want the group to focus on because you can, you know, listeners, you know, people out there who are looking for a group can always ask the people leading the group, like, what kind of topics do you cover? What are things that come up frequently in group and kind of gauge from there whether they would benefit from this group?

Julie: Sounds like you’re saying you’re the, you you can be a wise consumer in this. Like you can be picky, shop around. Yeah, that I would imagine that make an appointment for an intake or like an assessment may feel annoying to a lot of folks. I just wanna show up and like see what happens, but I can appreciate where you’re saying, Adina, that like that allows then for you to know that there’s a lot of things that you don’t want to do. been extra steps taken to allow for, I mean, we can’t guarantee safety, but just like a safer experience. And that is something that will go a long way. 

Adina: Yeah. And we do a call with people before they start in our groups. And it also gives us a chance to share group roles, general roles, courtesies and things. And I think that yields a sense of safety in our group members that when someone’s joining kind of everyone’s heard the same, you know, group guidelines and things like that. And there’s just kind of this added layer of like, okay, everyone’s, you know, coming and they know how kind of how group goes and, you know, certainly people get a good feel as they go along. But, you know, no one’s just like thrown to the thrown in there. 

Carolyn: And also, I’d also add, you know, it’s important. to look at who’s facilitating the group and look at their training, look at their, you know, is eating disorders, their expertise, is it one person, is it, you know, is it being co -facilitated, you know, someone might have a preference, but certainly, you know, seeing who’s running it is going to be really important. And that call like Adina’s. saying or that contact is super helpful also to see if it seems like it’ll be a good fit if you vibe with the person.  And what we’ll do too is if we have, let’s say we have a group and there’s eight people and we have a slot left and someone comes in and let’s say they’re really outside the demographic, let’s say of age that we have. you know, we’ll talk about who’s in the group, not giving, you know, personal information, but say, look, the age range is this, how do you feel about that? You know, when people really appreciate that, we try to, you know, we’re curating it as well to have people, you know, feel comfortable but have some diversity and there’s, 

Julie: I love that because I think someone who’s listening who’s like maybe wanting to be a group facilitator is listening to that how that can help a person have some more ability to make the best decisions for themselves. Like if the age range is so different and they are much older than the average age of the group and for them to decide, yeah, to have some some consent in that process and instead of just lumping people together and then them showing up and be like, “Oh, I am 67 and everyone else in the group is in their 20s.” Great. There may be some things that can be helpful, but yet there’s a lot of like, I don’t know, differences and risks. So, and thank you for giving some insight too on just like the facilitator themselves, like what to look for. Is there anything else about like what you would say as someone’s kind of before we move on to anything else with like how to make these kind of decisions before you like start looking into a group?

Adina: I mean, I really believe in talking to the facilitators if they’re willing to chat with you a lot of times, you can get a sense of just personalities and like Caroline said and vibe with with them. Are they easy to talk to, you know? you know, do you get a trust in talking with them. And I also think like, you know, again, like the the person looking for a group can think about, you know, do they want to do they want to listen to other people, maybe like a check in group is something that they’re that would be appropriate for them or helpful. Do they want something that’s more geared towards specific topics. I think that can be helpful and just choosing something that’s really going to be beneficial. for what they need or what they’re looking for. 

Julie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lots to think about. 

Carolyn: And it kind of goes along with this, but I just wanted that Adina, you alluded to it, but getting information about expectations from the group, because let’s say you want to join a group, but you know that this commitment, it can’t necessarily be weekly because you have a job where you can’t always be available at a certain time. You’re making sure, again, that the group fits your life. So I think that that’s important to like go over what expectations are really an informed consent, right? you’re getting involved in. 

Julie: I think that’s so important. So let’s think about going into group therapy. And you know, going into therapy period is just like, it can be terrifying. terrifying. After spending, you know, 20 plus years in therapy, I don’t feel terrified about anymore, except when I start with a new therapist, I’m always a little like, I feel a little awkward. And so someone who may be newer to the therapy experience and especially newer to group therapy, and they maybe have different lived experiences, or they have been marginalized because of the body that they have, different kind of eating histories you know, part of like what therapists, but we often talk about, of course, in our like eating disorder conferences is like having people with different lived experiences and different eating histories in a group together. Should we do that? Should we not? Can we like open up that can of worms? Because, you know, someone listening may have an identity that is not usually represented in the eating disorder treatment. And I have a feeling that all three of us agree, like they should have equal access to treatment, but yet the risk for something like group therapy is gonna be higher. So yeah, what are your thoughts on having groups where people have different lived experiences, different eating histories? Yeah, what do you think? 

Adina: Well, I can, I can see. There’s so much. This is such a big such a big topic. 

Julie: It is like the like we could spend a whole like conference day talking about it, right? 

Carolyn: Yes. Yes, and and I think that it it’s important to recognize To that there is not like one way, but there’s not one answer to this, right? Like we should all mix everybody and all different experiences or they should all be separate um You know, it’s not not that as clear cut, but I do think it’s important to recognize that eating disorders exist on a continuum. So there is a lot of diagnostic crossover. It doesn’t take a whole lot for someone to go from being categorized as having anorexia, um, maybe binge purged sub type two, having a binge eating disorder or bulimia. Like there’s just a, it’s typically, for some reason, a three month period is like the magic period, right? That there’s a change in symptoms or a change in weight. So I think that’s just really important to put out there that the diagnostic categories, right? can get us in trouble if people get too identified and attached to them. And unfortunately, there is a diagnostic hierarchy that we push against with oftentimes restrictive eating disorders being seen as more virtuous or more of an accomplishment. And we really push against that. And so it’s important to recognize that there is, again, such a crossover and look at the commonalities within the eating disorders. And most people have had experiences with various symptoms, and they’ve transitioned over time. So that’s, you know, addressing a piece of it. So we don’t like to, we really think that there is benefit of not having a group with a single diagnosis. – 

Julie: Yeah, well, can I make sure I’m hearing you right? ‘Cause what I’m hearing you say is like, you don’t necessarily want to have a group with just one type of diagnosis because diagnosis are always changing and there’s fluid and there’s like, it’s not this black and white thing. So it’s kind of not gonna happen anyway.

Carolyn: Yes, it’s not gonna happen anyway, right? ‘Cause what happens when someone has to leave the group? if they, let’s say I need some weight or all of a sudden I’m purging, then I have to go to a different group because I don’t meet this criteria. So that’s one of the things. The other is that I think that it’s important to, like have this diversity of bodies as well. and, you know, we talk about the, you know, participants, group participants that may be in a smaller body than another participant, and they are complaining about their, I’m just complaining, but like, you know, and a lot of just stress about their weight. And this is an issue that comes up, right? So, how does that feel for the group participant in this larger body? And we really encourage an open dialogue about this. And we do a lot of work looking at weight stigma and internalized weight stigma and also how words and behaviors related to those beliefs affect each other. It is not the worst thing in the world if someone feels some regret that they were saying, like, “Oh, I still feel so gross because I’ve gained weight,” and the other person says, “Well, that when I hear that, I’m wondering what you’re thinking about me.” That’s a hard conversation, but that doesn’t mean that’s not one that we should not have it. And I think that it really has people look at their own beliefs and their own internalized weight stigma and maybe if they pause and think about it. But again, that’s not a bad thing. We want them to be authentic and we want people to express themselves. But we also, you know, where did this come from? And getting underneath of it, because that’s what we’ll also say, what does it mean? What are you really afraid of? And there’s such a commonality in fear of rejection, right? And in struggling to regulate emotions and in fear of being abandoned. So many people are relating to that. And it’s almost like the eating disorder or the weight becomes the red herring. 

Julie: Yeah. You know, and I think about, you know, the majority of the work I’ve done has been one on one work. I’ve done some group work, but it just wasn’t where I did most of my experience with clients who are recovering. And, whenever folks have group experiences they were maybe the person in the room that had the largest body, or had times where people were talking about that they’re feeling gross, like you said, or weight gain, and a facilitator never named like hey, or interrupted. And I would love to hear what the two of you think about like, if someone was that person, what they could do. And also like, how can facilitators be better at that? You know, and I think about hopefully now with people with lived experience, letting us know how that has been such a horrible experience that people aren’t doing that, but I would imagine now it’s probably still happening. So yeah, any advice you’d have for a facilitator and then also someone who’s experiencing that type of harm in a group, how could they speak up? Do you have any insight? 

Adina: Well, I just want to add real quickly to what Carolyn was saying that having all kinds of different bodies in the room is, we find really valuable and we’ve had some really incredible and transformative experiences in our group when people in, you know, smaller bodies, larger bodies are having these conversations together. I think it’s been really healing. I think when we’re not talking about a body type, but we’re talking and the fears associated with being that weight -shape or size, but we’re talking to a person, you’re talking to someone who’s actually gotten to know really well in the group process and that person has feelings and their own ingrained beliefs and struggles and suffering and all of that I think it’s such a richer conversation than you could have in therapy, right? Like, bringing the person to the table, you know, with anything just yields more opportunity for conversation and dialogue. So, you know, and I think this also goes back to someone knowing what they’re looking for in a group, right? Like, if someone is feeling like, you know what, like, I don’t want to be the largest body in room, I really need support of people who are also experiencing what I experience 

Julie: Great question to ask. 

Adina: Yeah. Maybe, you know, they do need a group, you know, specifically towards the experience of living in a large body. 

Julie: Or at least not the only one. I think that’s a big part of maybe even like arranging a group as a facilitator is making sure that there’s not someone who’s like the only person of color, the only person on a higher weight body, you know, making sure that there’s actual like diversity outside just like one. 

Adina: Yeah. But back to your question of, you know, what can facilitators do? I think that when sensitive topics come up, you know, kind of like the issues that we’re talking about in marginalized lived experiences, you know, not like pivoting, not getting jumpy as a facilitator or nervous, just kind of like grounding as a facilitator is so important because you know remember group members are feeling comfortable with you and bringing topics to the table that they know that they can safely bring. And if the facilitator is just like can’t touch that you know and like pivoting really quickly it sends a message right like that this is this icky topic or can’t be talked about but this is totally where like healing needs to happen and we have to have these discussions and conversations. So I think you know like kind of naming it or recognizing right and like validating yeah like this can be a tough conversation you know can we can we talk about this more can we spend some group time diving into this because I think it’s really important. I think can be a good way to just kind of garner some support and understanding from your group and also gauge kind of where they’re at and whether it feels you know to touchy or painful or whether the group is willing to go there.

Carolyn: And I think that people that have been in stigmatized bodies, having them share their lived experience can be really eye -opening for others in the group. And sometimes that alone can lead to a pause, right, when somebody is going to share upset about, “Oh, I think I might have gained a pound,” and someone is sharing that they were humiliated because they were trying to get on a ride in an amusement park and they had to, in front of everybody, they had to get up and leave. I think that it is perspective. Right? And it doesn’t mean that other person suffering is not important ’cause I also wanna stress, right? Eating disorders are about food and weight and they’re not about food and weight. So again, one of the things that we often do is try to get underneath of it, right? So what is this, again, what is this really about? What are you really afraid of? And that can bring that discussion where– the commonality comes out,  right? So that brings the discussion to the whole group where people can relate. But I do think checking in with group members is a way to address this too. So if we, you know, and it helps because we have two of us, so we can really like scan the room and we do the group now virtually. And we work really well as as a team. And thank goodness, because, you know, and we still probably miss something, but we really try to be aware of the body language. And then check in with people, So when, you know, so and so shared this, I noticed this, you know, from another participant, and you can ask, like, did something come up for you? Or what are people feeling? You did this bring up any feelings about your own body and almost is stirring the pot, but sort of stirring the pot, right? Like we want to hear. – 

Julie: Yeah, like there’s like that immediacy like using in the moment in a way to kind of help stop harm if it’s happening and then also tapping a check -in. I think that is so important. Yeah, so if you’re someone who is doing group work or is thinking about doing it, just acting like you didn’t hear it, it’s not a  good idea for anyone in the group, especially for the person who is taking the most risk being there. So, yes. So let’s,  we need to finish up soon, but let’s talk nerves. Like it’s starting, like I was saying, starting with a new therapist or starting a new group can be really tough. Any pregroup, pep talk, words of wisdom that you have, anything that you tell your folks before you start a group, anything that you find are the words that people need before they start. And also, as I’m asking for this advice for someone who may be a group member, also thinking about, like, there may be a facilitator who’s listening just to eavesdrop on us. I don’t know if that’s anything that they could do?  We know you’re listening. Anything that a facilitator could do to help make starting a group easier for that person who may feel nervous? Yeah, let’s help these nerves.

Carolyn: One of the things I guess you could call like a mantra that I think about a lot sometimes that actually originated with like doing like yoga. or meditation is that it’s a practice, not a performance. So I think remembering that coming to group and, you know, committing to a group, it’s a practice. If you don’t have to perform, you don’t have to say all the right things, you don’t have to fill the silence, you don’t have to say anything, you know, and we often will tell people starting group, like, feel free to just listen or chime in when you’re moved to. But that, you know, you don’t have to do anything.  You can just be there, and that’s perfectly fine and valid. And I think if someone is nervous about starting a group and just being kind of a quiet observer, they can also ask the facilitator,  like, “Is this okay for the first group if I just listen more”?  and I’m sure more often than not, the facilitator will say, “It’s totally fine.” So that is a saying that I like that I think may be helpful to some listeners. And another thing that we like to do when someone is starting group and we’re doing some introductions and we’ll kind of go around the virtual Zoom room. We have the pre -existing group members kind of share some things that they have liked about group or some, you know, memories or things that they’ve learned from group and that kind of puts take some of the pressure off of the new member and put some not onus on. but like it gets the pre -existing members just talking a little bit more to break the ice a little bit. And then, you know, by the time the new members introducing themselves, they’ve heard from everyone, they’ve, you know, heard everyone share something. And, you know, it’s not like you’re joining a group and you’re like, hi, I’m whoever and have to talk first. So. 

Adina: And when we did a closed group, so we initially started our group, I think, 2016. right, our outpatient group. It was closed. We have like six or seven week sessions. And we had an activity about like, what is your fear, right? So we have people write down, like what they were nervous about being in group. And then we would talk about that. And people would, you can do it where it would be like like in a hat basically and people would pick out and you don’t have to identify it as your fear or we’ve done it where people just go around and share what their fear is. And they got to see the universality of these fears and also how can we help, right? so I’m afraid I’m going to monopolize I’m going to talk too much and we can talk about like for that person like where does that come from have you had that experience.How, you know, will you be sure that you feel more secure, less anxious about that, that you’re not doing that? And, you know,  whatever that fear is, I’m going to fear that, you know, I’m not going to be able to relate to anybody or people won’t like me. I’ll say something stupid. I won’t have the right thing to say, you know, that all of those things, we can actually address them. So, so that that can be super helpful. And if it’s like, if it’s a not a group that kind of runs in like certain week succession, it’s something that we can bring up, you know, at any, any time, and even, you know, the during like a pre interview or like a screening can talk about what are you, what are you nervous about and address that then. I also think when I used to do a lot of I do still do some family therapy, but when I, well, even in individual therapy, sometimes I’ll say, “Raise your hand if you’re a little anxious.” And then I raise my hand too, because I think it’s really important for the participants to know, “We get anxious too. We don’t know what’s going to happen. We get anxious, but just enough to get us prepared.” So I don’t want them to think we’re super nervous and we don’t know what we’re doing, but it, of course, it’s natural to be a little bit nervous because you’re not sure exactly what’ll happen and just normalizing it. Right, yeah. 

Julie: I don’t know if there’s anyone listening who’s also engulfed in musical theater. I have a kid who’s a big musical theater person and I’m all I keep thinking about is the High School Musical, We’re All in This Together. Like that now is in my head for me to say that. Like, because yeah, the facilitator has nerves too. Folks who maybe have been in groups before have nerves too and it’s really normal. And I hope this conversation has been helpful for someone who’s maybe like thinking about adding this to, you know, just help their recovery feel like it’s going in a new direction, adding a new layer of support. And, you know, something that I always would tell my clients, because like, I’m sure you have this too, like, everyone has their own stories, everyone has their like own, like, history, but there’s so many themes that we see just over and over again. And I would tell my clients, I’m like, obviously we can’t do this because of HIPAA, but like, I wish you could be a fly on the wall for the rest of the day, because you would hear how everyone else is struggling with this exact same thing. And that’s what group work does. It helps to expose how the diet industry and all those like oppressive systems all, or like working the same shitty magic on everybody, you know? So I appreciate this work you’re doing. and I know the two of you are about ready to release a book into the world. Could you share a little bit more about it and how folks can get it?

Adina: Yeah, the book is called Eating Disorder Group Therapy, a collaborative approach and it is a guide primarily geared towards clinicians who are leading groups or interested in leading groups and basically kind of a how to from conception through dozens and dozens and dozens, I think 60 when I counted, different group ideas. – 

Julie: Yeah, I love the ideas in the book. That was super helpful to see. I’m like, this would have been so helpful many years ago.

Adina: Yeah, to me too. And that’s one of the reasons that we wanted to put this out there. But even if you’re not doing group work, I think Carolyn and I both feel like individual therapy or individual work dieticians could completely benefit from this too. I’ve used a lot of the group ideas in my own individual sessions of the dietician with my clients. If you find that you’re doing a lot of the same things in sessions or groups, or having a lot of the same conversations, and you just want some ideas, want to put some new pep in your step, I think it’s a good resource. 

Carolyn: Yeah. 

Julie:  Awesome. Is there a place where people can find it? ‘Cause I know it’s, is it gonna be in pre -order or is it already in pre -order? 

Carolyn: Yeah, it’s in pre -order now. It’ll be out officially on April 25th, I believe. But you can get it now on Amazon and wherever you get books, it feels like, ’cause I am not exactly, I think the Routledge on their website is. well. Yeah, you can pre -order it there. 

Julie: There’s probably a smorgasbord of places that they can get it from. Yes, we’ll put a link to that in the show notes too for anyone who’s wanting to get it. And, you know, if you’re a listener who does group therapy, maybe you can get it just as like an anonymous thing to send to a group facilitator because they probably can’t accept gifts. But I appreciate it because there are so many different ideas for groups. And then also if someone is just like, “Oh my gosh, I’m thinking about a facilitator. How do I do the paperwork? What questions should I ask before?” It has so much of that, so you don’t have to spin your wheels. So I think it’s definitely like a wise investment for anyone who does work in eating disorders. So I think about the harm that clients have experienced because a facilitator hasn’t gone through any training. So this can really help prevent that. So thank you for writing it all down. And thank you for joining us. And anything else before we sign off, any other kind of, I don’t know, anything else? Are we, do we say everything that we needed to say?

Adina: One last thing that I want to add. 

Julie: Yes. 

Adina: at least on my part, is that, you know, one of the really nice things that happens in group is that participants are able to support one another and for someone who maybe has a hard time challenging their own eating disorder thoughts or can never really, like, feel like they can give themselves advice or kind of access to their, you know, the anti -eating disorder thoughts, being able to to support someone else with similar thoughts is such a good way to almost like put on this training wheels and practice that. So that’s one of the really beautiful things that we see happen in group is that, you know, people will say, “Oh, I can never say this to myself, but it feels so much easier to say to you.” And practicing that, like flexing that muscle over and over and doing that can really help people struggling and access their own recovery voice. right? Find their own good voice, so to speak, not to be too corny here. But I think that’s one of the really nice things that we see and one of the reasons that we love, you know, doing groups. 

Carolyn: Yeah. Yeah. I mean,  just to piggyback, right, the being validated, you know, by others and having others be compassionate really is a gateway to  self -validation and self -compassion because you’re seeing it modeled and then being able to then practice that for yourself. We really have seen that in our group and it’s lovely and it’s very unique to this group environment.

 Julie: Awesome. Well, let’s end it there and thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. 

Adina and Carolyn: Thank you for having us. 

Julie: So there you have it. I hope you enjoyed this conversation that I had all on group therapy. Any of the links mentioned during this episode, you can find below in the show notes or over on my website at JulieDuffyDillon.com/podcast. Before you run, would you do me a really big favor? Could you leave me a five star review if you are listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or whatever, there is a really easy way to just go ahead and leave a five-star review. The reason why I ask this, I know you hear everybody ask for it, but it is a really great way for independent podcasters to just be able to peek around and for people to find us.  And if you wanna take it even one step further, if you could subscribe so you don’t miss episode and you don’t miss an episode, so it benefits both of us. Thank you in advance. And I look forward to connecting with you next time and until then, take care. 

Julie: Thank you for listening. I am Julie Duffy Dillon, and this is the Find your Food Voice podcast. Ready to join the anti diet movement and take the food voice pledge? Go to julieduffydillon.com and sign your name to the growing list of people saying no to diets and yes to their own food voice. The Find Your Food Voice podcast is produced by me, Julie Duffy Dillon, and my team of kick ass folks. I couldn’t make the show without Yeli Cruz, Assistant Producer and Resident Book Fiend. And Coleen Bremner, Customer Service Coordinator and professional Hype Master. Audio editing is from Toby Lyles at 24 Sound. Music is Fly Free by Hartley. Are you looking for episode transcripts? Get them at julieduffydillon.com, where you can also submit letters for the podcast, give us feedback, and sign the Food Voice pledge. We need your voice to end diet culture. We literally can’t do this without you. Subscribe to the Find Your Food Voice podcast to get weekly inspiration and education on how we can defeat diet culture and reclaim our own food voice. I look forward to seeing you here next week for another episode of the Find Your Food Voice podcast. Take care.