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Julie Duffy Dillon (00:00)

Hey there, welcome to episode 426 of the Find Your Food Voice podcast. Today we have a special letter episode with guest Deb Benfield. Let’s get to it.

Hey there, welcome my friend. My name is Julie Duffy Dillon, registered dietitian and your host of the Find Your Food Voice podcast. What have you been told? What are the stories that you’ve been told about aging and body changes? This is a really important part of life, right? And all of us who have a body and are lucky enough to live until old age, well, we’re gonna experience some changes. And I don’t know about you, but the stories I’ve been told is that

I don’t want to be a burden when I get old. I also need to stay looking a certain way. I need to not have wrinkles. I need to have bouncy, shiny hair. And I also need to make sure I don’t get the menopause belly, right? I mean, listener, if you have been catching all the little like, I don’t know.

sidebar conversations that I have where I’m mentioning some things that I’m experiencing in real time, you know, I’m perimenopausal. And it’s been a rough ride. I mean, it’s part of the reason why I don’t do weekly episodes anymore is perimenopause has been basically chronic pain for me with migraine. But another part of the experience, just like everybody else, going through changes in how my body is shaped and many other things.

I am so lucky to have people in my life that have been able to continue to bring the discussion and also just people who are living their life, trying to bring about as much body liberation to everybody as possible. And having people in my life has helped me to make perimenopause not quite as crappy.

And one of the most important people for me has been Deb Benfield.

Deb has supervised me, mentored me, and been a very good friend in every season of life. And I am so excited that you get to basically have that friendship too, that mentorship in her new book that’s coming out next week. It’s called Unapologetic Aging. And I have a link in the show notes for it. But while you’re trying to decide, should I get this book or not?

I wanted to invite her on and help me go through a listener letter that is talking about aging and the struggle they are experiencing. So if you’re new to the podcast and you don’t really understand this whole letter thing, something you need to keep in mind is listeners, listeners just like you write in and they talk about their relationship with food and they address the letter to food And me and a guest will be…

go through it and we provide insight some ways through it. What you need to make sure you do is stick around for the end of the episode because food writes back.

But before we get to all of that, I wanna make sure that you know that by joining me over on Substack, you get ad free episodes of the Find Your Food Voice podcast. Whether you’re a free or a paid subscriber, you do get access to these dynamic ad free episodes. go over to findyourfoodvoice.substack.com or use a link below and you can subscribe right there.

I’m really excited about the opportunity that Substack has brought me as someone who is a creator and really enjoys writing. And what I have developed the Substack to be is a place for us to continue to talk about ⁓ body liberation and intuitive eating, especially if you’re impacted by PCOS. So if you are someone who is looking for more information on PCOS and helping to promote health without another rigid diet,

We need to be friends. And every month I do deep dives. like research review for hours and hours on a very specific topic. It’s super niche, right? But I wanna review, know, GLP-1s in PCOS. I know it changes weight, like, does it actually improve your health? That was one of the deep dives I did recently. I also have done one on what are the labs that you should be asking your doctor for? Because I strongly believe with PCOS, you need more than an A1C.

you need so much more information than that A1C will give you. And of course this month, kind of coinciding with the episode with Deb, I released a research review deep dive all on midlife, perimenopause and menopause and PCOS. So that was the November ⁓ deep dive and December, which is actually the month where this episode’s coming out. I’m gonna actually be sharing with you ways to intervene in midlife with PCOS to help.

promote some of the changes that happen in midlife PCOS. All right, enough of all that. I wanna make sure that you just have all the information on that sub stack, but go and subscribe. And we are going to get to this episode’s letter and hear from Deb after a very quick sponsor break.

Julie Duffy Dillon (05:14)

Welcome back. All right, let’s get to this episode’s letter.

Dear wonderful, delightful, complicated food, we’ve had a long relationship of valleys and peaks and after a long time, I finally feel like we’re at a pleasant plateau.

I’m no longer caught up in the very restrictive behaviors of anorexia that I experienced when I struggled to control other aspects of my life. I recognize that sometimes my body needs more of you and I’m usually able to eat without feeling overwhelmed by grief and negative thoughts. My husband is kind, loving, and better than anything I thought possible. And yet I am very aware that plateaus have boundaries and I’m afraid that in this case, the boundary is a cliff, mostly related to aging.

I have almost always been in a fat body, but about seven years ago, through severe restriction, I was small enough to shop in a straight size store for the first time since I was a freshman in high school. As nice as the compliments were, I was harming myself and my relationship with you. While my therapist was outstanding in helping me build the strength to leave an abusive situation, he encouraged my weight loss. Leaving abuse meant a new career.

And while I never planned to be in healthcare, that is where I found myself. I work in long-term care and every day I listen to the fat phobic opinions of the medical community. In the last five years, I have regained all the weight I lost and more. At work, I am always the fattest person in the room. I try to tune out water cooler discussions of their personal diets. But when we discuss patient health, I am overwhelmed.

Two patients can have generally equal diagnoses, symptoms, and test results. But if one is fat, their situation is blamed on their weight, and pain is nearly always reduced to, if they would lose X pounds, they wouldn’t be in pain. I’ve also had some health setbacks in these recent years. I am now disabled and experience chronic pain. I was finally diagnosed with PCOS after 26 years since my first period, and I had to stop the medication that helped regulate it because

of potentially deadly side effects. I know that because of PCOS, my food needs are different from others, and that I experience hunger, fullness, and cravings differently. Food, I’m afraid that when I am older and need more medical care, they will not be able to see past the numbers on the scale. I’m afraid that if I ever need residential healthcare, my nutrition needs will not be met because I will be served the same thing as everyone else, on their schedules, according to rules made by bureaucrats.

We have worked so hard to get to this place and I’m afraid that the medical community is going to destroy that. I fear that they will not care if restriction makes my hair fall out again as long as my waist gets smaller. Please help me find ways to stay on good terms with you while advocating for myself within a fat phobic system. Sincerely, allied health worker in need of an ally. All right, listener.

I want to tell you a few things about my good friend and colleague Deb Benfield before we bring her on. Deb is a nutrition therapist, yoga teacher, and author who helps people in midlife and beyond mend their relationships with food and their body. Through our online groups and membership and her upcoming book, Unapologetic Aging, she’s challenging diet culture and ageism with a message of nourishment, body respect, and liberation. All right, listener, let’s hear from Deb.

Julie Duffy Dillon (08:51)

Hey Deb.

Deb Benfield (08:53)

Hello Julie and your people.

Julie Duffy Dillon (08:56)

We all say hello, thank you. I’m so glad we have a chance to connect and spend some time with this letter. So did you get a chance to read it?

Deb Benfield (09:06)

I did and I really appreciate you inviting me and this conversation around ageism and menopause. We have lots to talk about. Yeah, I appreciated what was going on in this woman’s story. Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (09:19)

Yeah. Well, let’s start there

because I was trying to piece together from the letter how old this person is. mean, because they said that the guy got diagnosed with PCOS 26 years after their first period. It seems like the PCOS diagnosis hasn’t been that long. I think they’re in their 40s, somewhere in there. So maybe almost midlife.

Deb Benfield (09:28)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Julie Duffy Dillon (09:48)

That’s an area, like midlife plus is your area that you’ve been spending so much time on. Yeah, so what is this note getting into? What’s coming up for you when you read it?

Deb Benfield (09:48)

Right.

Yes.

Well, I feel like there was some fear of aging that was clear to me. And I think that’s a lot that we can talk about because there is this internalized ageism that creates these fears about what it can be like to be older in any kind of body. And then you add to that the story that she has about her weight.

jumping up and down and entering this time in her life, fearing that she’s gonna have both of these issues that she will need to advocate for herself in healthcare and other parts of her life, which is a very common phenomenon. The way that your body changing in midlife triggers like, uh-oh.

Julie Duffy Dillon (10:31)

Hmm

Deb Benfield (10:58)

I am getting older now and that’s when all the ageism starts to bubble up and really starting to help her recognize that her stories about being older are the problem way more than her actual body changes are. that would give ⁓ her a lot of relief if she could externalize

Julie Duffy Dillon (11:06)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

⁓ that’s important.

Deb Benfield (11:26)

this and look at it as like, you know, oppression as messages from systems that have told her her body is a problem, that she needs to be working hard on controlling. And I think that would really help her recognize that if she can untangle herself from those stories, then perhaps she could be

Julie Duffy Dillon (11:32)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Deb Benfield (11:54)

more interested in emerging at this time in life, which is what midlife can be. It can be a time of emergence. And this whole chapter of your life is so precious because in midlife, you recognize the fact very clearly that you don’t have that much time. You don’t have as much time as you have an awareness of how finite time is. So it helps you clarify your values. And I think that would help her so much.

Julie Duffy Dillon (11:57)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Deb Benfield (12:23)

if I could just help her separate her fears from the story she’s inherited.

Julie Duffy Dillon (12:24)

Yeah.

Yeah, because, okay, so something that I want to put some, like almost pins on a map for us is the fear of aging and then the emerging. And I can see how they can kind of, by having the fear be so big, it can block us from even the possibility of these positive changes that are coming next or just so even, or positive or even neutral. Because so much of, I know I think about

the stories I’ve been told about aging. And maybe that’s where we can go next is like, what are the stories that we are told? And I think the reason why I think I want to go down that path is because this is something because of like how we’ve been taught to talk about getting old that we’re not supposed to talk about it. Like I think about women in my life who are in their 70s, 80s, to

Deb Benfield (13:05)

Thank you.

Julie Duffy Dillon (13:31)

And even people in my age group, in my 50s, people don’t want to even say their age. There’s this, we don’t name it, we don’t talk about it, we pretend it’s not happening. so, yeah, let’s talk about the fear and name it because I think there’s something really powerful about exposing as a story. Like you said, it’s a story. It’s a story we’ve been told. Yeah, where should we start?

Deb Benfield (13:43)

for sure.

It is a story. It’s, would imagine,

well, I would imagine the people in your audience have already started to get curious about the stories they carry about fatness and about like their biases against fat bodies, including fat on their bodies. And once you can

do that is the same exact process. It’s the same recognizing that you have come to believe that younger and young appearing is always better and older and appearing older is always bad. Very much like thin is always good and fat is always bad. I mean that binary is helpful and once you see how you bought that

Julie Duffy Dillon (14:36)

Mm-hmm.

Deb Benfield (14:51)

then you can start to recognize that you say things and hear things like, you haven’t changed one bit, you haven’t aged a bit, as like this big compliment, which exposes how like looking younger is the goal. Very much like, you look great if you lost weight. That automatic assumption that younger and thinner are the goal.

Julie Duffy Dillon (15:00)

Hmm… Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Deb Benfield (15:21)

appearing to be younger and appearing to be center is the goal. And once you can extricate yourself from that social narrative, you can recognize that, ⁓ maybe older doesn’t have to mean decline and like things that are scary. Maybe being older actually brings some

Julie Duffy Dillon (15:21)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Deb Benfield (15:50)

just reality, it just is. I mean, that’s my goal first is just to get this is just what is some acceptance of what is. And then perhaps look at the like, actually, there are benefits in our lives. But when you said like people your age, I just want to also say one of the things that I have been really surprised by, I’ve been doing this work since I turned 60, I’ll be 67 next month. And in this period of time,

Julie Duffy Dillon (15:53)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Yes. Yes.

Deb Benfield (16:20)

And me having these conversations and doing this research and talking to people around like in my personal and professional circles. Younger and younger, 30 somethings, even 20 somethings talking to me about like fear of not starting Botox, fear of not starting their wrinkle prevention programs with their dermatologists because everybody else around them is engaged in that. So what does that mean?

Does that leave them out? Does that mean they’re no longer relevant? Which I think is at the core of many of the fears around being older is like loss of social collateral, loss of like relevance in the conversation or whatever it is. And there’s grasping around relevance. There’s grasping around, yeah, you can feel it in yourself and others. There’s lots of grasping energy around.

Julie Duffy Dillon (16:58)

Yes. Yes.

Mm-hmm. ⁓

yes.

Mm-hmm.

Deb Benfield (17:18)

You want to appear to be like still hip, which is what thinness does in our culture. It’s so interesting.

Julie Duffy Dillon (17:25)

Yes, it

1. And I have so many things I’m thinking about with this. ⁓ So let me start with one ⁓ piece of this that may not be for every listener, but I’m thinking about some listeners may appreciate what I’m saying. And I’m hoping it kind of helps just to help some extra pauses in the conversation about aging is that

Deb Benfield (17:51)

Yes. Yes.

Julie Duffy Dillon (17:54)

So much of what we’re talking about sounds a lot like the work that I did as I started to identify my own anti-fat bias and starting to be like, wait, what are the stories I’ve been told about body size and shape and how does that relate to other ⁓ systems of oppression? because, mean, you and I are friends, like we know each other. So I’ve been talking to you about this for a long time and I feel really like.

Deb Benfield (18:04)

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Julie Duffy Dillon (18:21)

grateful that you’ve been a mentor for me to help me to appreciate the layers of ageism in there too. so I think I just want to, I want to also just acknowledge like how in the, in body liberation spaces and weight inclusive spaces and intuitive eating spaces, there’s not like aging is not a part of it typically. And that’s what I’m, I’m so excited about your book because I think it’s going to like make it also part of the

Deb Benfield (18:29)

Absolutely. Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (18:51)

Yes, we need include this. I don’t know. What do you have to say about that? Yes.

Deb Benfield (18:54)

I sure hope so. ⁓ when I first started,

that was one of our biggest issues is that the pro-aging, there is a pro-aging conversation and movement and that movement is very weight centric and has next to no body diversity. And

Julie Duffy Dillon (19:00)

Yes.

Yeah.

I also think about how

it’s very ableist too. Yeah, yeah.

Deb Benfield (19:18)

Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you. Cause

it’s hard to tell those parts sometimes. It’s important to discern which is which and sometimes both. And the body liberation conversation tends to not include aging, but when you bring it in, there’s a lot of, yeah, thank you for reminding us. There’s a lot of welcoming in that, but in the pro-aging conversation, when I have interjected my concern,

Julie Duffy Dillon (19:23)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yes, yes. Mm-hmm.

Deb Benfield (19:47)

about the lack of body diversity and can we not make it the same body ideal, the same thinness just with letting your hair get gray, but still really focused on, you know, all of the huge thigh culture. But there’s no welcoming in that. I have not been welcomed. So that is not, there is like, there’s a shutdown, there’s a denial. It feels a little bit like white feminism. ⁓

Julie Duffy Dillon (19:56)

Yes.

Seriously, what do we think about? Go ahead.

Yes.

Yeah, because I

think about what the pro, yeah, the pro aging space to me when I think about it, I mean, the visual I get is a thin white woman in a yoga pose, like doing the namaste kind of, and with straight gray white hair that looks very like a great blowout. And ⁓ she has some wrinkles, but like,

Deb Benfield (20:17)

That same thing.

⁓ Precise like.

Boom.

Julie Duffy Dillon (20:43)

and acceptable amount of wrinkles and things like that. this kind of ties into my brain flow to something else that I was thinking about when you were talking about and you use the word relevance. And for me, that hit me really hard because I can remember, and actually let me say this again too, part of the aging conversation

and why I think it’s something really important to talk about, but also it’s an opportunity for thin white women especially, because it’s gonna be one of the first times that they’re experiencing some oppressive systems outside of being a woman, but still, as white women, we really are navigating things quite easily. And aging for me was one of the…

Deb Benfield (21:32)

Mm-hmm.

Julie Duffy Dillon (21:42)

and I’m early in the aging process. It was one of the first times where I was like, I’m not relevant anymore. I can tell. I can tell people are not, they don’t see me when I walk in the room anymore. I’m not that cute thing anymore. And so that felt, I remember feeling it and just being like, I’m losing, I can tell I’m losing my social status. It feels weird to name those things, but also, I don’t know, I could feel it happening.

Deb Benfield (22:03)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Julie Duffy Dillon (22:11)

and it was a weird thing. ⁓ And I remember reading in Dietland. Do you remember Dietland? ⁓ Yeah, me too. Listener, I’ll put a link to it in the show notes. It was a really important book for me. I know it has its negative sides to it too, but whatever. But in there, one of the characters talked about losing their privilege and how sad that was. But at the same time,

Deb Benfield (22:14)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. I sure do. Love it. Love it.

Julie Duffy Dillon (22:39)

how it was also this like time where they could do more because people were not watching them anymore. And I was like, ⁓ that’s interesting.

Deb Benfield (22:47)

Yeah, it’s

a mix. It’s a mix. women, yeah, some women love no longer getting the attention, being removed from the male gaze that’s very heterogeneous, from being sexually viable, being hot. And some women really crave like holding on to that.

Julie Duffy Dillon (22:51)

It’s a mixed bag.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Deb Benfield (23:16)

And aging is very, very difficult if you still feel the need for that kind of power in your life. So there’s an opportunity there. That’s why I say it’s a huge opportunity to get curious about how you find your power in your life, how you are relevant to yourself. Can you have an internal…

Julie Duffy Dillon (23:16)

Mm-hmm.

Deb Benfield (23:43)

resource for yourself in your life that doesn’t require all of that external energy to feel like you’re going to be okay. But it is also true, I have a lot of compassion because you don’t feel as safe. I just wrote recently, I wrote about this in the book too. These things literally leave you feeling less safe because you don’t feel like you belong.

Julie Duffy Dillon (23:59)

Hmm

Deb Benfield (24:11)

And whenever you don’t belong, when you feel like you’re moving to the margins, it’s real. It’s very real to start to feel like I’m not as safe out here. I better do what I possibly can to bring myself back. And that means dieting for a lot of women. That means white knuckling around what their body appears like. And it can mean lots of other things around appearing younger too. But I’m…

Julie Duffy Dillon (24:22)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Deb Benfield (24:40)

I think that’s one of the reasons why there’s so much relapse or developing new eating disorders. One of the reasons in midlife and beyond, because we know for a fact that’s real. People feel themselves working harder, working harder on whatever their thing is, restricting more. And what they’re trying to do is keep that sense of relevance in our culture and that sense of belonging.

Julie Duffy Dillon (24:53)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Deb Benfield (25:08)

because it feels like you are, there’s a threat to that. And it’s very real, you feel it in your body. So I just think it’s important to acknowledge that. Yeah, you need to acknowledge that and see what it is. Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (25:15)

Yes, yeah, and that’s exactly what I felt like. yeah, I think it’s

Yeah, I have, again, I feel so grateful to be connected to you and have a friendship with you because when I was going through that, it did help me pause and really help me to name, like how, or not even name, but just help me to decide like how much I’m really gonna spend on trying to maintain.

attractiveness in a sense of that’s when I say attractiveness, mean, like stereotypical youthfulness and stuff like that. Like, and I think everybody just, I don’t know, everyone’s gonna have different decisions that they’ll make. And you know, I mean, I was like, how much am gonna spend on like lotions for my face? And am I gonna use needles ever? You know, like making decisions like that. And I also, I remember like when I decided what I was gonna do, I was like, I do reserve the right to change my mind. I remember even before I got divorced, I remember even saying like,

Deb Benfield (25:48)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (26:14)

I reserve the right to decide to cover my gray if I ever get divorced. But then when I got divorced, I was like, nah, I’m gonna keep it. But with all being said, I think there’s so much nuance in it. And I also can appreciate there’s like, as I’m going through it, I have so much compassion for people as they’re.

Deb Benfield (26:20)

Mm-hmm.

Julie Duffy Dillon (26:42)

starting to experience aging and like almost like rooting for them. I don’t know if you experienced that. I’m like, come on, you can get through it. Yeah.

Deb Benfield (26:48)

absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah, just really returning to like, upholding that body autonomy is very important. I want everybody to feel like they can choose whatever they need to choose because I truly get and understand that I have a lot of privilege in my life. I have straight sized body privilege, able body privilege, white, so many privileges. So I don’t know what it’s like.

Julie Duffy Dillon (27:00)

Yes, yes.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Deb Benfield (27:18)

I understand the fact

that people that feel already on the margins are going to be a little bit, they’re going to be affected by the aging process differently. There may be more fear and anxiety about that too. I just honor that.

Julie Duffy Dillon (27:32)

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Yeah, and that makes me think about this letter writer talking about their experiences in healthcare and witnessing how shitty, healthcare providers, the medical system. We already know that there’s like so much bias on body size. And this reminds me a lot of the work of Deb Burgard who often talked about

Deb Benfield (27:50)

Yes,

Yes.

Julie Duffy Dillon (28:08)

bringing up ⁓ body size and ableism and making sure that we can connect them quickly because I can see how in ⁓ long-term care, residential facilities are just navigating healthcare as a higher weight older person, how ⁓ they’re gonna experience so much stigma, especially from the ableist point of view. ⁓

Deb Benfield (28:27)

Okay.

Yes.

Julie Duffy Dillon (28:36)

Can we unpack a little bit on like ableism and aging? I don’t know where even to start, but what comes to mind for you?

Deb Benfield (28:41)

Yeah,

I just want to validate what you just said, because I have countless clients in my career who have been healthcare providers and feeling very much like they need to be on guard when they’re at work with other healthcare providers, because that is the absolute worst place for them and their need to set boundaries and protect their growth and their

Julie Duffy Dillon (28:52)

Mm-hmm.

Deb Benfield (29:09)

their recovery process because it’s so.

It’s just the norm. It’s just the norm to have bias against older, less able, larger, probably also black and other brown and the list is long. The list is long. Yes. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yes.

Julie Duffy Dillon (29:27)

Mm-hmm.

The list is long. Yeah, and the older one gets, the more that’s going to be added. And for some people, they’ve had it this whole life, right? So it’s another.

And so that’s I think that’s another reason to have compassion for folks who choose different ways to navigate the aging process like Botox and plastic surgery. Like, yeah, it’s going to be easier for me to have gray hair than someone who’s experiencing more oppression. I mean, I think about that a lot. ⁓

Deb Benfield (29:46)

Mm-hmm. Sure. Sure. Absolutely.

Right.

Julie Duffy Dillon (30:01)

Yeah. And the way that I think about my fear of aging, so much of it, of the story was losing the ability to take care of myself. And ⁓ the older people in my life, I see how our world is not set up to include bodies who need help. know, it’s just not like even like opening doors and things like that. Like it’s just not even set up. Yeah.

Deb Benfield (30:28)

Yeah.

So another thing that I write about and think about is how individualistically we are oriented in this Western culture and how wanting to white knuckle around being independent is a reflection of that as part of that. And it’s not healthy. mean, that leads to all of the isolationism and all the things that are very much a threat, especially as we get older.

Julie Duffy Dillon (30:48)

Yes, yes.

Deb Benfield (30:58)

It’s better to be in community. Yes, it’s better to be with others. It’s better to be codependent, not codependent, interdependent. like, yes, to need people and to voice your needs and to share and like work together in communities to support one another is the best way to age. And our internal story is to hold on to independence. It’s one of the biggest.

Julie Duffy Dillon (30:58)

Especially right now too. Yes.

Entertainment, yes.

Mm-hmm.

Deb Benfield (31:27)

conversations I hear that like people are not aware, right? People are not aware of how actually that’s not very healthy to want to maintain your independence. Like you’ve got to learn to be okay with asking for help with something I really practice in my life. It’s not that easy because it goes counter to all the things I thought about being a strong independent woman. Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (31:29)

and I don’t wanna be a burden, that’s the other one.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right, yeah, that’s where white feminism really becomes a big

problem in this conversation. Yeah, and the burden piece is another one that culturally I think that was passed on to me of like, I don’t want to be a burden when I’m older, so I’m gonna make sure I have enough money saved so I can just be put in a home that my kids don’t have to take care of me. Like that’s something that I remember being like a really big open part of the conversation growing up. ⁓

Deb Benfield (31:57)

Yeah, it doesn’t help.

The phone. The phone.

Julie Duffy Dillon (32:20)

not necessarily with like my parents, but just like in families and in friend groups, that that was just something that was talked a lot about. But yet as I’ve had family members die, you know, at the funeral, like one of the conversations that comes up a lot of times is like, you know, one family member usually has stepped up or something like that and taking care of someone and then also help them transition into a facility and

And ⁓ so a lot of times, we’ve been like, thank you for doing this. And a lot of times people have been like, yeah, it was hard. And it was an honor to take care of this person. It was a privilege to be able to do this. it reminded me of how there’s still some threads of this interdependence that still is in my lineage that I would love to, I don’t know, just kind of keep it around, right? ⁓

Deb Benfield (32:58)

That’s it.

Yeah, I

am, as I told you, I’m soon to be 67. And in my friend group, we’re talking a lot about how we need to develop, you know, co-living situations now that we, I mean, it’s a big conversation. And I think it’s a national conversation. So, yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (33:26)

Yes, same.

Well, like the golden girls, we people made fun of, right? But like

they had something, they had something going on there, living together as friends.

Deb Benfield (33:39)

I heard

somebody say just the other day, I’m not quite ready to Golden Girl. I mean, they use it as like a social construct. Like, I’m not quite ready to Golden Girl, but that’s what I’m thinking I’m doing. It’s so funny. It’s a yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. It’s like, wow, I appreciate that. And everybody knows what you mean. Yeah.

Julie Duffy Dillon (33:47)

Yes.

love that it’s become its own like institution or like a verb.

Mm-hmm, yeah,

yeah. ⁓ exactly, and ⁓ practice that interdependence. I think about ⁓ neighbors, you know, I’m trying to get better at like asking for help ⁓ and also not being like overly like, thank you, thank you, thank you, just like, thank you. And then, you know, whenever someone else offers or asks for something to reciprocate, like having that to be a part of the norms instead of.

Deb Benfield (34:08)

Let’s just help each other out.

and food.

Hmm.

Okay.

Julie Duffy Dillon (34:34)

let me pay you for this or something like that. just, I don’t know, my neighborhood group, we’ve talked a lot about like, do we all need a lawnmower? No, I think only like one or two of us needs a lawnmower and we can just like all like use it. we’ve done, you know, things like that. I mean, economical, I mean, it seems like good for the environment, but also like it gets getting me used to depending on other people and.

Deb Benfield (34:34)

Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Sounds smart to me.

Mm-hmm.

Julie Duffy Dillon (35:02)

them depending on

Deb Benfield (35:02)

Mm-hmm.

Julie Duffy Dillon (35:03)

me and just like normalizing it. ⁓ I think there’s so much to this conversation and I know you’ve just spent the last two years writing about it in your book. ⁓ Tell us like about the book and how people can find it.

Deb Benfield (35:12)

Yes.

The book is called Unapologetic Aging because what you said earlier, like way back, you said something that you hear people apologizing for their age, having displaying shame about saying their age. So I try to say my age very easily and frequently. So the name of the book is Unapologetic Aging, How to Mend Your Relationship, Nourish and Mend Your Relationship with Your Body and…

Julie Duffy Dillon (35:26)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Deb Benfield (35:46)

You can find it on my website, which is my name, debrabenfield.com. I have a sub stack with the same name and I’m very active on Instagram, which is aging body liberation. So all the places, yeah. Coming out December 16th.

Julie Duffy Dillon (36:00)

Wonderful.

Wonderful. feel like we just,

great. And so folks, ⁓ by the time this is all edited and wrapped up with a bow after I like do my little editing, it’s gonna be coming out like a week before. So pre-orders are so important. listener, click the link in the show notes, pre-order it if you have the ability to do so. And I know on your sub stack, you’re basically going even deeper than the book too. So.

Deb Benfield (36:17)

Yeah, perfect. Yes, yes.

Julie Duffy Dillon (36:31)

Give Deb a subscribe over there or follow or whatever we do on sub stack. can’t remember and And maybe after this airs ⁓ if we can like make our schedules a line I would love to do a sub stack live to just talking about this episode because like I think we have to wrap up because I mean I usually only record for 15 minutes and we’re double that already so We can continue it over at sub stack, but ⁓ I really appreciate

Deb Benfield (36:38)

Both.

That’d be fine. Yeah.

Yes.

Julie Duffy Dillon (37:00)

You taking the time today to help me with this letter. Is there anything that we like left off that you want to include for this letter writer?

Deb Benfield (37:06)

Yes, there’s

well there there’s so much I want to say right now, but there are two things I’m just going to briefly say. The thing about this book that I think is really important to highlight is that I hear so many clients being frustrated with their mothers or grandmothers and how they talk about their own bodies or talk to their children about their eating in their bodies.

Julie Duffy Dillon (37:19)

Mm-hmm.

Deb Benfield (37:34)

And I feel like this book is a very helpful gift for people who are trying to bring their mothers into conversation or aunties or sisters or grandmothers. It feels like, and I’m being very gender specific when I’m talking, but I did not write the book that way. I want the book to be for everybody. I tried not to just make it for women because I see more men in my practice and more gender nonconforming folks than ever.

Julie Duffy Dillon (37:39)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Deb Benfield (38:02)

So this aging conversation is everybody’s conversation. So that and this menopause, cold, totally out of control gold rush to me is really about ageism and anti-fat bias. That’s really what it’s about. Yeah. So let’s just go straight in.

Julie Duffy Dillon (38:11)

yeah.

Yes. Yes. Yes. I wish they would.

I wish that all the menopause dollars was going into helping me with my menopause related or perimenopausal related migraine instead of like how to not have belly fat. I wish there was more because you know, this is something that like there’s like all these different experiences that so many of us who are going through it ⁓ are experiencing that are very uncomfortable.

Deb Benfield (38:33)

Mm.

Yeah.

True.

Julie Duffy Dillon (38:47)

And yet there’s so much money and focus on just like how you’re appearing. So much more. Yes. I appreciate you coming on and sharing your expertise with this letter. And I’m excited for everyone else to read the book because I’ve already read it and it’s fucking fantastic. I’m thinking about all. Yes. And I’m like thinking about all the people who need to have this in their hands by Christmas. So. ⁓

Deb Benfield (38:48)

Yeah, very.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you again. Thank you again. Yeah.

Thanks for including me, Julie.

Julie Duffy Dillon (39:17)

That may be a great gift idea. Anyway, take care, Deb.

Deb Benfield (39:17)

Thank you. Yes.

Thank you. Bye bye.

Julie Duffy Dillon (39:25)

So there you have it. Listener, I hope you enjoy this conversation with my good friend, Deb Benfield. I hope it helped you just to add some more nuance to your conversation and how you are connecting the dots with your own relationship with your body as you’re going through life and the aging process. And be sure to check out all the links. We have links to Deb’s book below and also her sub stack, my sub stack.

And like I said, we’re gonna be planning a Substack Live. So if you are already subscribed to my Substack, then you will get a notification once that is scheduled. And again, I encourage you to subscribe to my Substack because everyone who is a subscriber, whether you’re paid or free subscriber, you do get ⁓ episodes that do not include dynamic ads, which I think is a wonderful perk.

And if you are a paid subscriber, you do also get monthly deep dives on PCOS related topics. And last month was GLP-1s, the month before was all the labs I recommend.

And of course, in November, we had the menopause and midlife and PCOS.

Thank you so much for joining me this week. Just know that we are going to have a new episode in two weeks with the team and we’re gonna talk about what we envision a world that does not include diet culture. Because all we talk about is naming all of the negative stuff. Like what would the utopia actually look like? It was such a fun podcast to actually record. It made us feel so warm and fuzzy and we hope as you’re nearing the end of the year, you also get a chance to feel that warm, cozy, fuzziness.

That really is a nice antidote to right now. I see food has written back. So we’re gonna get to that, but until next time, take care.

Julie Duffy Dillon (41:15)

Dear allied health worker in need of an ally, you are seeing and feeling another way bodies are policed and told to conform. Aging bodies are normal bodies too, yet we have been told stories that make us fear them. Even more, oppressive systems like ableism, racism, and anti-fat bias make aging not just about losing the male gaze, yet also losing safety.

Examine the stories you’ve been told about aging. Decide which are true and which are just that, stories.

Challenge your beliefs about aging and hold them together with your values. Give yourself compassion as you take these next steps, and we hope you allow as many people as you can hold you up as you make your movement forward. Love, food.

Thank you, dear listener, for choosing to listen to the Find Your Food Voice podcast. Subscribing and sharing episodes really helps the show grow and supports me and my mighty team as we put this show together. The Find Your Food Voice podcast is written, produced, and edited by me, Julie Duffy Dillon. You also get show notes and other parts to this episode with the amazing help of Rachel Popik

Lastly, we also have Coleen Bremner on our team who joins us on episodes and helps us behind the scenes. I so appreciate all the work they do to bring, find your food voice to your ears every other week. Be sure to join us over on Substack where we are diving deeper into each episode

This also gives you another chance to support the show by becoming a paid subscriber. Podcasting and writing is my full-time job. So whenever you can become a paid subscriber, it helps us to be able to pay the team a living wage, helps me to support my family, and again, helps me to have this full-time job. We thank you for any support, And we look forward to being in your ears.

in two weeks with another episode of Find Your Food Voice. Until then, take care.