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Julie Duffy Dillon (00:00)

Great news, the Find Your Food Voice book is ready for pre-order. You can get to it at julieduffydillon.com slash book. Again, the Find Your Food Voice book, the book you need to help you reconnect to your own innate eating wisdom and help you break free from diet culture. I have written this book for you and I’m so excited to bring it to you. Get to it at julieduffydillon.com/book.

Julie Duffy Dillon (00:25)

Welcome to episode 401 of the Find Your Food Voice podcast. Today, we’re talking ultra processed food. Let’s get started.

Julie Duffy Dillon (02:00)

Hey there, welcome. I am Julie Duffy Dillon, your host, and I am so glad you’re here. Today, like I mentioned, we’re unpacking ultra processed foods. There is so much conversation on this again. And I do stress again, because this is something that comes up at least every five years or so. And you have been asking about it, so I wanna unpack all of it. And so this episode, I go through some of the research that has been pointed out in the news recently, some recent research has been published, what it’s saying and how to apply it to your life. What are you going to do with this information as you are navigating your complicated history of food? And I’m recording this episode for those of you who are sick of dieting, maybe you have tried every diet under the sun and you just cannot diet anymore, or you’re recovering from an eating disorder and dieting is something that is really not okay because it is something that can literally kill you. So what do you do with this information about ultra processed foods? Well, I’m going to teach you a system that I talk about in my Find Your Food Voice book that helps you to rely on your food voice and three key terms to filter it through as you are navigating these, situations with food and what’s happening with ultra processed foods is a fine example, so let’s use IRL examples to help you then to be able to take that information and apply it with the next popular food trend that we’re told is just so, so bad.

A really big hawk just flew past my office where I’m recording, so I’m gonna take that as confirmation. So we are going to get to this episode in just a few seconds. A little bit of housekeeping. I wanna let you know that the Find Your Food Voice listener survey is open just for another week or so. We would love to be able to build the content in the Find Your Food Voice podcast and also in the VoiceFinder newsletter that helps support you as you’re navigating our current climate when it relates to food and talks about body. so you can get to that survey at julieduffydillon.com slash survey. While you’re on my website, we would love it if you could pre-order the Find Your Food Voice book. It is coming out very soon in just another, let’s see, six weeks, March 25th. It’ll be here and I’m so excited for you to read this.

As you know, in the book publishing world, the more people who pre-order the book, the more that then bookstores will order the book. So it just helps sales in the future. So if you have the ability to pre-order, I would so appreciate it. And so would my team. You can pre-order it at julieduffydillon.com slash pre-order. And thank you in advance for doing so. Again, it’s something that I feel really grateful for. I feel grateful for being able just to write this book. So.

I’m excited for you to finally have it in your hands. All right, we’re gonna get to this mini session on ultra processed foods after a very quick ad break. We’ll be right back.

Julie Duffy Dillon (05:08)

Welcome back, VoiceFinder. Let’s get started talking about ultra-processed food. Of course, this is something that many big media outlets like the New York Times are reporting on, the dangers of ultra-processed food. And I’ve had lots of DMs and emails sent to me with people really concerned. And so I decided to devote a whole podcast episode on this because we need to talk about it. How do we live in a world with ultra processed foods and what the research is bringing to us and also find a way to recover our complicated relationship with food. And there is a way to sort it all out. And I’m going to share with you some tools that I have shared with clients in the past. And I hope this mini session helps you to pick the parts you need, put away some things that are maybe for another time and just leave what doesn’t. the way to get started, I think is important to just name some of the things that researchers and media outlets are telling us about these ultra processed foods. And in a nutshell, it’s basically that they’re bad and that correlational studies are linking them to a higher incidence of chronic diseases like diabetes and heart disease and higher rates of mortality. also that eating more of these foods appears to be replacing foods that are sources of vitamins and minerals. And so we may be missing out on some key nutrients. So something that I can tell you about this argument is as a seasoned dietitian, you know, I’ve been a dietitian for over 25 years now. I have heard these arguments before. Like this is something that people have been saying for a really long time. And ironically, the research study that came out that kind of started all of this discussion was based on data that was collected in the 80s and 90s. So no wonder, it just feels really familiar. And of course,

food frequency types of data collection, those are often based on a collection that was done decades ago. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s how we are able to get data.

The thing that I think is important to keep in mind is that we live in a world where there’s a lot of perfectionism, there’s a lot of rigidity. And when we look at the roots of diets, the diet industry, and we connect all the dots, it goes back far. And a lot of dieting started in the 1800s, but then a lot of talk about how to eat and how our body is supposed to be shaped is based back even further back in the origins of the slave trade. So this is something that we have been dealing with for a long time. And what has happened is for you and me, we weren’t alive back then, but we were brought into this world where perfectionistic thinking, especially about bodies and food, have already become just so close to us that we can’t see without them. And so when we think about the argument about should we eat ultra processed foods or not, even putting it in that light, should we eat it or not, is very rigid and black and white. And what I love about nutrition science is that nutrition science is not black and white. It is so fucking gray there’s so much ambiguity. I think it’s important to take in media reports on food to put a pause button whenever you feel that kind of fear and urgency. In my time as a seasoned dietitian, I have done some media training and that’s like day one, first lesson is when you talk about things in the media to make it scary, to make it so people wanna keep listening when we have these news stories come out, that’s what they want. They want us to be afraid.

So something I want you to remember, keeping in mind that nutrition science is very gray. This type of research is just showing a relationship. It’s an important relationship with ultra-processed foods, and it’s just a relationship. It’s not showing causation. something that I like to always remind myself and I remind you is when we eat a food, one bite is not gonna kill you or cure you. No, I did not come up with that line. That is from Evelyn Tribole The first time I met her in 2006, I did a training with her. And that’s one of the things she said that I wrote down in my notebook, my new intuitive eating skills notebook is, we’ve been taught that, eating up any food, it’s either going to kill us or cure us in one bite. And nutrition just is not that sexy. I wish it was, but it’s not. When it comes down to it, healthy eating has so much more to do with variety and moderation and balance, you these unsexy words that basically mean is just like you have a lot of everything. And eating one Twinkie, if you and I can agree that Twinkies are ultra processed, eating one Twinkie is not gonna kill you or cure you, just like eating a serving of broccoli won’t either. So sort of some homework as we are going through this mini session.

I encourage you to check out an article that I put linked below in the show notes. It’s by fellow dietitian, Jessica Wilson. And the article appeared in Slate in this month as I’m recording this. And it’s called Ultra Processed Foods Have a Terrible Reputation and They Don’t Deserve It. It’s a wonderful piece that Jessica did as she was shopping in Trader Joe’s talking about adding protein bars and frozen foods and how they can be really important and how ultra processed foods have their place. And something that I agree with her on is that, if we ate only ultra processed foods, and you may be relying on these foods, and you may have noticed this too, but if we only eat ultra processed foods, we’re probably gonna feel pretty sluggish, we’re gonna be pretty sleepy, maybe have some headaches and not feel really great. And I would say the same would go if you’re only eating broccoli or you’re only eating fruits and vegetables.

One of my big take home messages for you as you are trying to sort through what to do with this ultra processed food message is don’t require yourself to do this 100%. I agree with Jessica, ultra processed foods have their place. If you have financial privilege and you’re able to access lots of different foods, include lots of foods. And rule number one to help you guide this kind of conversation is make sure you’re eating enough.

Always. And that’s why I said a few minutes ago, you know, you may be someone who relies on ultra processed foods to eat enough. And eating enough is always number one. You know, getting enough calories, getting enough nutrition, having enough satisfaction from food is always rule number one. If I’m going to have to make a rule, that’s the rule I’m going to say. It’s very important as you’re navigating how to manage your relationship with food. So if you have enough and then you still have financial access, adding other foods to it is my next suggestion. You don’t have to completely eliminate ultra processed foods. And what you can do is see maybe an ultra processed food maybe you and I can both agree on as maybe like Kraft macaroni and cheese. I have some version, some brand of it, I’m sure in my pantry at this point. And one of the things that my family that we like to do is if I’m trying to throw together a dinner an I’m not really sure what to make. I’ll grab one of those boxes of macaroni and cheese. I may have some shredded chicken. I love Aldi’s shredded rotisserie chicken. One of my favorite things to get there. So I’ll get some of that out, cut up some random raw fruit that I may have, apples or oranges, but I have a lot of this time of year. And maybe some tomatoes and maybe have a bag of lettuce. I’ll get some of that out too. What can we add to these foods to make a meal, a snack, or how can we add them throughout the day along with other foods? This is how we can make this work. You don’t have to live a life without ultra processed foods in order to promote health and to also help your relationship with food to be one that’s aligned with your food voice. So we’re gonna take a very quick ad break and then I wanna go through how to filter this conversation of ultra processed foods or any food that is making a lot of noise in the media, how to filter it as a voice finder using your food voice. So we’ll be right back.

All right, welcome back. I wanna now go through a system that you can just put on a shelf somewhere for whenever you need it. Whenever you see something in the media about a food that makes you feel really uncomfortable, that maybe activates some anxiety with food, maybe it activates your eating disorder and you’re like, what do I do? What do I do? you can filter it through your own food voice to find out really what you want to do with it. You know, is this something that you want to avoid completely? Is this something that you’re going to help find its place? What are you going to do about it? And I know the concept of food voice is newer. It’s something that I’ve been thinking a lot about for the last 20-ish years. And I just spent the last two years writing about in the Find Your Food Voice book but I know you the listener may be newer to this concept. And I’m gonna read for you the definition of food voice. And your food voice is an internal system you were born with to communicate when to eat, how much, and what choices to consume based on what is available. This communication may be through body awareness, like hunger, fullness, fatigue, mood, or satisfaction.

And this communication may also be through thoughts and feelings or guided by structured self-care techniques. Your food voice will be unique to the individual, yet always three things. And this is so key, especially to this conversation. Your food voice will always be flexible, kind, and nurturing. Its primary function is to help you prioritize eating enough. Your food voice is a knowing with unconditional permission for food, yet compassionate when outside circumstances block access to it.

So like I mentioned, there are three key areas of your food voice that we’re gonna go through right now that I think are really important as you are navigating media conversations around food and we can use the ultra processed food that we are hearing about today to help us go through it. And again, they’re flexible, kind and nurturing. Your food voice will always be these three things. And so if you’re wondering like, should I eat this Twinkie? Yes or no? Well, ask yourself some questions about it through the lens of is it flexible, is it kind, and is it nurturing? So let’s start first with flexibility. And before we were taught to diet and distrust our own food decisions, we humans broke bread or tortillas or rice, potatoes, naan, or whatever cultural carbohydrate staples that we were eating at the time. And we did this to connect, feel pleasure, restore, and to just eat.

The diet industry, with its foundation in racism, it dictates perfectionistic rigid rules. If you feel bad for eating an ultra processed food, you may feel a painful response kind of ping when you eat it. And that ping, if you feel that, maybe you want to call it a trigger or some anxious thought, that was actually a disconnect from your own personal food voice.

It may have felt wrong or possibly even immoral. This is a part of your food voice that’s needing attention. So when you feel that ping, maybe you’ve eaten a Twinkie or some other highly processed, ultra processed food, please gently inform that part of yourself that felt that ping of food’s moral neutrality. Remember, food is not good or bad. It is flexible.

Be compassionate with yourself because you were told that food was good or bad or healthy or unhealthy or whatever kind of black and white thinking that we’re using. Remind yourself it’s okay to have made this kind of mistake and that food has no moral value because it is required to stay alive and it also is like how as humans we stay connected. Food is always flexible. Notice when your food thoughts gravitate towards black and white judgments.

And these classification systems come from the diet industry, not your own like compass, not your own food voice. All right, so the second one is kindness. Your food voice will always be kind. How to know what to eat will always come from a place of kindness when it’s coming from your personal food voice. And you and I know we’ve become vigilant, cautious eaters.

We distrust ourselves around food, especially if it tastes good, brings pleasure or is satisfying. Some of the shoulds that we hear with ultra processed foods are really these punishment scars that we have on our food voice. And what it can sound like is, I can’t buy Twinkies because I will eat them when they’re in my home. Or I feel gross after eating Kraft Mac and cheese. Or I only need one helping when you’re eating your favorite meal served on the holidays. So what I know to be true is racism created authoritarian rules out of thin air to control us. Do not minimize this intergenerational trauma. People have been killed for centuries just to uphold racism’s power. And your ancestors learned these rules to survive and lovingly pass them on to you, hoping you’d stay safe. That’s why it can be hard to make a kind choice about food. It’s literally wired into ourselves and it has been for generations. Like a terrifying game of telephone though, our ancestors learned over the centuries that staying slim symbolized a close relationship with the white, cisgender, thin ideal and gave access to power.

And the more power someone has, the safer they remain. So something that I’ve noticed, I’ve seen these oppressive systems translated into public health guidelines, like in the USDA, Dietary Guidelines for America. Do you remember the ones that came out in 2020? They said, enjoy a variety of foods, but not too much. That was my favorite. I’m like, what the fuck? Like, I’m like, my gosh, they’re almost there. Like, enjoy a variety of foods. Yes, that is healthy eating to me but then they had to throw on that, but not too much. Over the last 30 years, public policy has focused on purely eating less and now also slamming the very foods that allow for folks to get enough. And something that I think is missing in this conversation is that the same public groups, the USDA also lets us know that one in five kids experiences hunger.

44 million Americans experience food insecurity, but the US public policy continues to paint a picture of excess. These oppressive systems have expected us to be okay with not getting the food we need. Pause when you distrust your food voice, when you hear that distrust, when you hear it not being kind. Consider instead that you are hearing some of those messages that have been passed down in that really banana game of telephone that have just programmed you by one of these systems. Remember that your food voice will always kindly prioritize you getting enough food.

it will always want to offer you one more just in case you need it or want it. Your food voice will always encourage you to eat more food to help you recover from when you were told that you couldn’t or shouldn’t. And you may be in that spot and you may be like, Julie, but I eat enough now, but how long have you been struggling to get enough? And if you have been dieting or experiencing eating disorder for years, and maybe you’re on your way to eating enough, it just may not be enough time. I encourage you to lean into that kindness that comes with your food voice while you’re navigating this ultra processed food conversation. Maybe you need to eat this food to get enough food or to continue to help you repair your complicated relationship with it. All right, so besides flexibility and kindness, we got one more, So your food voice will always be nourishing. Phrases like food is medicine strain my brain. I know that’s a big part of the ultra-processed food conversation is that we need to eat certain foods rather because food is medicine. And while I appreciate eating certain foods can help us treat or prevent diseases, I am a dietitian after all, I get this.

Unfortunately, the media and other outlets have convinced us that nutrition science has this absolute kind of quality to it. For example, do you remember hearing that eating just one bite of an egg causes heart disease? But then years later, it flipped to eggs have this like massive heart health promoting effect of just eating an egg every day. This is so confusing. And then you add in the oppressive systems. It doesn’t matter what the egg is going to do anyway.

Yes, food does fuel us and it can be like a medicine, especially if we’re not eating enough. know, calories give us energy to think, to play and move about. Calories wiggle our GI tract to digest. Calories give us energy to move our diaphragm to help us breathe. Without eating enough, we do run out of fuel, but food is so much more than the calories it provides. I remember eating a big bowl of leftover spaghetti and meatballs the morning after the 2016 US election.

Holding my warm Navy fiestaware bowl, I felt soothed. I can still remember the comfort I got in that moment by that eating experience. I felt hopeless and swirling my fork through the saucy spaghetti, it disconnected me for a few minutes from the despair I was feeling. The hot steam engulfed my face like the embrace I needed in that moment. I was eating emotionally and that was a part of listening to my food voice.

And I know for many of you, these ultra processed foods that are being villainized right now are a part of our emotional eating experience. Something that is controversial that you probably have heard me say, and if you haven’t, you will hear it now, and may make you uncomfortable, but emotional eating is normal eating. I think it’s so important. Emotional eating is healthy eating. I think we should legalize it. Most intuitive eating coaches I see on social media discourage emotional eating.

And unfortunately, along the way, intuitive eating has funneled into eating when hungry and stopping when full. If you want to hear more on this conversation, the last episode, episode 400, I interviewed one of the co-creators and co-authors of intuitive eating, Elyse Resch. And this is something she jumped right to. She was like, this bugs the crap out of me. This rigid way and this like rigid rule, it blocks us from normal coping strategies and it blocks you from your food voice because your food voices always want you to have this like nurturing, nourishing experience. If you and I were amoebas in this agar-filled Petri dish, eating only when hungry, you know, maybe eating without ultra processed foods would be fine. Maybe it would be easy and we would just eat these foods fresh from the ground, but we don’t live in a Petri dish.

We live outside these circular plastic walls and have seasons and time zones, different languages and customs, political parties with different beliefs, climate change, wars, weddings, divorces, new life, death, whatever. We have all these things. Being a human is complicated as fuck. We are not robots, but we live a very complex experience.

Food is medicine only sets you and me up to fail because it ignores our complex humanity. Saying that ultra processed foods are just plainly bad and we should eliminate them ignores our complex humanity. Your food voice includes a way to help you cope with life’s different experiences. It’s not because we’re addicted to food.

It’s not because this ultra processed food is addicting, rather food soothes and nurtures our emotions. Food moves serotonin with just one bite. And what I want to leave you with is this is your strength, not your weakness. So as you are considering what to do with ultra processed foods, I hope you can tap into your food voice and ask yourself, should I have these foods around? Is it kind?

Is it flexible and is it nourishing?

So there you have it. Those are my opinions on ultra processed foods. I hope it helps you as you’re navigating just how we talk about food. And I look forward to being in your ears next week. I’m gonna be sitting down with the Find Your Food Voice team and we’re gonna talk about the Voice Finders guide to meal planning. We love talking about meal planning because really, you know, we’re all anti-diet and we have enjoyed turning meal planning on its head. It’s not gonna be pretty cups with little chicken and rice and broccoli dishes put together that you would take a picture for for your Pinterest board. No, no, no. The voice behind your guide to meal planning is going to be so great and useful. I can’t wait for you to hear the conversation. But before I go, remember the Find Your Food Voice book that helps you to reconnect with your food voice to help you navigate all these things we’re talking about is going to be coming out.

March 25th, you can pre-order it now. And pre-ordering it is such a great way to help me and the team because as you know, in like book sales drama, this is something that really helps us to be able to tell bookstores, hey, make sure you stock this book. So you can pre-order it at jillieduffydillon.com slash book. All right, I look forward to being in your ears next week talking about meal planning, but until next time, take care.